Vivian_Rutledge


























  1. This is a debate that pops up from time to time. Kibbe believes she was not 5’7, and reports have her at various heights from 5’5.5 to 5’7. She is a FG because her star image best aligns with it and she she was referred to as a Gamine in articles. Kibbe’s prime FG celebrity however, is Liza Minnelli, not Audrey Hepburn.

  2. In the recent list of “new” celebrities, she was given as the FG icon. Each ID had one classic icon and two contemporary celebrities. He definitely references her more than Liza now.

  3. When we found out she was TR, we spent a really long time trying to find pics for the announcement post in outfits that fit TR and it took longer with her than for any other celebrity that was a part of that group. The best thing I remember finding was a photo shoot for Seventeen or something from years and years ago. I think that’s part of it.

  4. My parents and my brother are also all Gamines. My dad does have tall genes in his family as well and my half-siblings got those and my sister is FN and I think my brother is DC.

  5. I got accepted after one night for start here, and natural, but for the romantic group it took maybe two weeks.

  6. These are set to automatic approval once you are in SK, so don’t bother requesting prior to SK acceptance. Start Here is the only one with a manual process.

  7. It’s when the bust and/or hip line push out the line. It has nothing to do with rib cage shape. So if you have double curve, rather than the top of your body (shoulders/upper back) providing the structure for your clothes to hang from, they drape around curves only and the bust and hips both go out wider than that top line. Shoulders are considered to “end” where the sleeve and shoulder would meet in a shirt that is tailored to fit in a standard way, so no dropped shoulder etc. If you don’t have curve, clothes fall straight, rather than drape around. This often is that the bust doesn’t go beyond the lines of the rib cage when looking straight on, but you can see in people who have Width and Vertical that sometimes the shoulders go out more than the bust even if it goes beyond the line of the rib cage. So if you’re a Dramatic, and you just have Vertical, there will be a clean straight line going down from the armpit in clothes. If you’re a Soft Dramatic, the bust will push this out and also push out further than that shoulder seam line.

  8. Look at the way the arrows you’ve drawn are going. If you drew a line through them, it wouldn’t show curve. It would show it being widest at the top and going in. With curve in this part of the line, the bust line is either even or further out than approximately where you’d normally have the sleeve and shoulder connect in a regular garment (no drop sleeve etc.). I’d say this is actually caused by the sweater not accommodating width. I could be wrong, but that’s what I’m seeing.

  9. I have this same thing going on around armpit and I also think I'm petite. When I posted my picture with a thought of me being a SN at first, I got almost ridiculed for thinking I have width. Like 9/10 people told I am SG lol And crisp lines and precise fits do actually suit me better in my opinion, yet I do have this thing going on.

  10. This sweater is definitely not made for either curve or width! It’s just whether the bust line pushes out more than the top of the line.

  11. The line between the two can be quite blurred and we share a lot. But what you want to look at is your own accommodations. Some people might be able to lean more into that than others. But I would also encourage you to not forget your yin! It’s very easy for SGs to fall into this.

  12. Work the colors throughout your outfit so it creates a relationship.

  13. Can you explain how, for example if I wanted to wear a chocolate brown skirt what color top should I wear?

  14. You’d wear the cream, but would bring the brown in elsewhere. Perhaps in a necklace, a scarf, jacket, whatever.

  15. For most of this I agree wholeheartedly!! But re: the Old Hollywood factor, I don’t take it as needing to dress in a way that harkens back to an earlier era and looking to dress like these women did. I see it more as the point of becoming your own style icon. How can you create the image that communicates who you are clearly and shows your best self? The studios were manufacturing these images while the studio system was in place, and basically what he’s saying is that you can create that for yourself and be the “star” of your life. It’s not that you should go back and get literal style inspiration from them. He’s actually not as big on giving people celebrity inspiration for their personal style as people think. It’s understanding how the star image was created. And the reason why current stars don’t really work is that icons have to have stood the test of time and that system hasn’t been in place for decades and careers and images aren’t crafted in that same way. What people wear on the red carpet often is more about what someone is paying them to wear.

  16. Thank you for clarifying, it makes more sense that way. But I guess part of my original problem still stands. I find celebrity inspiration useful and in the system it doesn’t really exist. There have been times when I wondered “how should I style this garment” and I could instantly think of a celebrity that would inspire me in some other styling system. I was looking for a new bag recently and my mind was stuck, I thought of Emily Ratajkowski who shares my quadrant in Rita’s system and I immediately found a ton of examples for what kind of bags she combines with outfits similar to those I was thinking. I am not saying that it’s wrong that Kibbe doesn’t do that, just something that is helpful to me and the way the Kibbe system is missing that part makes the styling process often not work for me.

  17. I wonder if this is a question of target audience? I think a lot of people here are interested in trying to make Kibbe resonate with specifically young adult fashion, which someone like Rita would also be more interested in and be more likely to build into her system. But as someone over 35, modern celebrity inspiration is kind of an “I don’t even know who they are” situation. It’s much easier for me, actually, to draw inspiration from “timeless” and iconic fashions of the past and interpret them in my own way than it is to find a current celebrity whose clothing choices are interesting or relatable to me.

  18. Men start with a baseline of length and width, the way women start with a baseline of curve. And the accommodations don’t work in the same way. He hasn’t really gone over them for men.

  19. There is no connection between season and ID. A high-contrast look on a Winter, who would be naturally high-contrast, won’t look as high contrast as the equivalent on a lower-contrast season. And if you like a monochromatic look, the single colors themselves will provide contrast against your natural coloring.

  20. i understand why you would draw a line between Lizzy Caplan and Aubrey, but personally I think that is more of a non-Kibbe similarity? She looks very N family to me, not a Classic type. More

  21. I’ve been thinking that it looks like she has some width in recent interviews with her that have popped up on my timelines.

  22. Oh, I didn't know he has that belief about reds. I guess your tranquil color can't be too close to your romantic color, that makes sense.

  23. All of the palettes are for individual clients and are unique to the client. The one with more colors is just an extended palette. This is an additional service one can get after doing the initial consult.

  24. TR would not have width. They tend to be the most Petite, really. I think you might be looking at resources that really overstate the yang in TR? But overall SCs are balanced and symmetrical, and have some curve/softness, but it would be secondary to their overall symmetry. TRs tend to be small and have what we might see today as narrow curves, with some elements of sharpness.

  25. I don’t love these types of dresses. They don’t look awful per se, but just not great. There isn’t enough structure, particularly in the waist area and it’s just too much of one long line (for me personally). I would tailor it into a mini style and I feel that might work a bit better.

  26. Yeah, there is nothing I would do with it but give it to an FN friend.

  27. Gogol uses “палевый,” and I don’t think we have this color in English in the same way. It’s used for the color of what we’d call a yellow lab, for instance. It’s straw yellow, basically. It’s a little more complex than we think of just pastel pale yellow. No idea where the primrose would come from, but it’s probably a reference that made sense to audiences of the time at whom that translation was aimed.

  28. Hmm yes it seems to be 50% chance that it will be in the dictionary as yellow.

  29. There is a verified SN who saw David recently and whose curve is in the bustline area.

  30. It’s not about a specific shape. It’s whether it pushes out the line in the context of the entire line.

  31. I thought he said it has to push out and then come back in specifically. Mine pushes out and then goes back to hanging straight down.

  32. No, if the line gets pushed out, it gets pushed out. I think you are hyper-focusing on body parts and not the whole.

  33. really! how interesting. It seems that some other people from SK seem to speak quite confidently about identifying & accomodating upper curve... I feel like I'm getting mixed messages 😩

  34. He emphasizes that there’s no upper or lower as it’s a single line, but curve is found when the bust and/or hips push out the curve, so people tend to use “upper” when it’s in the bust area.

  35. oh i see, so, overall you will or won't have Kibbe curve is what you are saying, but not every individual with curve will treat it exactly the same?

  36. Yes. I’m not quite sure why he is opposed to the “upper curve” verbiage—maybe because it’s isolating a body part?

  37. To be honest, I think a large percentage of people can come to the material, read through the descriptions, and recognize themselves. And then they start to second-guess for various reasons. I identified myself correctly off the bat but then wandered in the wilderness for eight years. 🤣

  38. It's a little clearer to me now, thank you very much. But how would you distinguish between similar types? Looking at the rest of the body, the "amount" of yin and yang? I mean, between sg and sc you can search if you have petite/balance/vertical, but for similar types like

  39. I would focus on your personal line accommodation and then as you actually put it into practice, the ID will come into focus. It’s very clear to me that I need a lot of pattern and detail; precise, cropped fits etc. versus the clean lines and symmetry of SC.

  40. lol, I can't tell if you mean that Kibbe Youtube and Tiktok are more well known, or that Rachel Nachmias wasn't as inaccurate as the Kibbetubers and Tiktokers. I agree with you in both respects, I really mostly wanted to talk about the Kibbe content that pre-dates Kibbetube and thought this would be a good opportunity.

  41. Oh no, Rachel definitely belongs in this conversation. Her way of “typing” for her faux-Kibbe system was at one point sitting with the quiz in her lap and going through it. Many of the Pinterest collages that get reposted to this day are her work. She is definitely responsible for the popular stereotypes of the IDs that still permeate the Kibbesphere. It’s her early 2010s interpretations that the YouTubers and tiktokers are working with. So she was influential, but her era has passed in terms of her Kibbe influence.

  42. Are there any traces of her content prior to her current blog? It seems that everything in her blog is from after she started her system with new names like Yin C and Yang C instead of Dramatic Classic and Soft Classic.

  43. A lot of stuff is on Pinterest. Seasonalcolor (where the book excerpts are) under the username papillonnoir (or something with papillon). The YinC/YangC stuff isn’t really any different from Kibbe and before David started participating in the community, people considered them synonyms because she was regarded as The Expert. I think she might have some different types in the book she wrote later? A lot of stuff was in old Facebook groups.

  44. TR would not be longer lines. The “mood” of the IDs is very different and SG has a lot more yang than TR does, while still having more yin than yang. I forgot how David phrased the difference exactly, but

  45. No, you wouldn’t go up a size for curve accommodation. You’d look for things to create a silhouette that accommodates the curve in your line. It’s not about whether or not the bust would be prominent in something. It’s whether fabric and cut combine to create a silhouette that works with what is in the line.

  46. What would that look like and do I need to accommodate curve or is it something different? The vertical line goes from straight to curved around the bust

  47. I can’t tell you what you accommodate. Curve accommodation can come in various forms, from softness/drape to thin and stretchy fabric to being cut with a curved shape in mind. Basically, you’re looking things that aren’t cut or won’t hang straight.

  48. I think he’s been more careful and done more research with the most recent crop of celebrities he’s provided. But you have to remember that when the book was written, you didn’t have the easy access to information that you have now. My mom would literally keep an almanac around to look up celebrity ages etc. You’d see a movie or a TV show, and maybe get some pictures in People magazine, but you wouldn’t be able to instantly get access to their listed heights, pictures from all angles in various outfits, etc. He also says that celebrities lie about their heights, which is true in my very limited experience.

  49. Oh I definitely give him credit for not having the resources then that he’d have now. I hear the essence thing about the typing decisions he’s made in the internet age too

  50. I think that it’s more accurate to say “impression” rather than “essence.” That’s why I distinguished between the most recent ones like Selena Gomez and other ones he’s “verified,” because some of the modern ones he was asked by clients and answered off the cuff, for instance (which he no longer entertains). The recent list was done with a lot of care and forethought.

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