German agencies fear Nord Stream 1 may be unusable forever - Tagesspiegel

  1. Last year it was "The administration’s position is at odds with much of Congress and with the Ukrainian government and other Eastern European allies, who have long held that U.S. intervention can still block completion of the pipeline, which is nearly completed."

  2. Is this a reference to something? The only instance of burning ships as a symbol of commitment I know of is Nymeria burning her fleet to show her commitment to Dorne, which I doubt you’re referencing since it’s a bit of an obscure piece of ASoIaF lore

  3. Not exactly, nord stream 2 has one remaining undamaged pipeline. If Russia did this then the reason was to make nord stream 1 a non-option as now their only option is to use more stream 2

  4. The headline is just stupid. Nobody "fears" it. It is just a fact. We don´t expect to get gas from Russia ever again and we are preparing to move away from Russia for good (Dependency was around 20% last time I checked and next year we are aiming at a 10% Dependency, which will cost us. But years of years of a conservative government, only thinking about the profit, dug us this moronic hole we are in right now.) Apart from the far left and the far right, not one political party in Germany is thinking about lifting sanctions.

  5. Due to its location, fixing it would require everybody get real cool with Russia real quick. And that’s not going to happen, so it’s likely done for.

  6. There are no gas related sanctions on Russia by the EU. Remember the turbine? It's still in germany, russia just didn't take it.

  7. No company will want to fix it only a few companies can and why would they if it will just got blown up again as long as the war continues and I can’t blame them

  8. Why would it? We Germans sure don't plan to buy Russian energy again any time soon and if Russians could repair it, then we can do it as well. The leaks are in the middle of the Baltic Sea, not Russia.

  9. Not really, you just go to the two nearest isolation points and isolate them either side of the leak. The section with the sabotage willl need replacing anyway, and youll just have to replace pipe between those two isolation points. As far as I’m aware all the sabotage is outside of Russia so the governments in control of those areas can repair it whenever they like if they are willing to foot the bill. I’d be extremely surprised if those sections that were sabotaged were not already full of sea water anyway.

  10. Time to go all in on renewables! Might be a rough couple of years, but the long term benefits to Europe and humanity will be well worth it.

  11. Honestly, Europe has been preaching about clean energy for decades now. This is the best opportunity they’ve had in ages to decarbonize, so I see it as a good thing if it helps them shift to renewables.

  12. Oh and don’t forget that Germany need gas. And now they have to buy from another country. For 4 times the price maybe even more. For politics beeing independent from Russia is good. But not for the poor people that can’t afford the new prices.

  13. Well tbf it's not as is there was two books sometimes considered the greatest works of German literature (tho tbh I disagree) which are literally about why you shouldn't make deals with the devil.

  14. I am kinda confused by these comments. Like there are quite few that feel disconnected from the topic but they were posted when article was very new by accounts few months old.

  15. So do the Russians think EU is going to spend money to fix the pipeline to buy THEIR natural gas that they can just blow sabotage again whenever convenient? Like this is what the great minds of Russia came up with?

  16. No, the pipelines are of no use next year, but the EU has a gas problem, Russia bombed it to fuck with the EU & US.

  17. Russia has just been left without a leverage and income, this cannot be beneficial for Russia. I believe it would want to have an income and a leverage, but it has none now. In my opinion, it only works against russia. Now, with everyone blaming russia for it even when no investigation has been done, it is even worse for it.

  18. You realize that your statement shows why it’s less likely Russia blew it up themselves right? Like you said, Russia want us to buy their NG. If Russia can’t provide, they lose their leverage. Especially now more than ever as winter is coming, when their leverage would have been at its peak.

  19. Honestly this whole sabotage might not be Russias doing. Russia stands to gain nothing from sabotaging it. The US or Saudi Arabia on the other hand...

  20. They firmly believe their own hopium about the EU freezing this winter. Not joking, they really are banking on it.

  21. Yeah, that's why this doesn't really make sense to me as a Russian plot - it weakens their position with the West since it locks Europe into not being able to buy Russian natural gas. Especially since I thought Russia's strategy with Europe was to use the natural gas as incentive to lift sanctions during the winter.

  22. Why do you think it is Russia? It is their natural gas that is carried on these pipelines. It only goes from Russia to Germany. They already turned off the tap on their end for Nordstream 1, and Nordstream 2 never went online. It is also a useful bargaining chip - they were able to offer natural gas if countries were to lift sanctions against them. There is no reason for them to destroy it.

  23. It’s too bad the Russian people can’t see exactly how bad he is fucking them. if they were smart that newly armed 300,000 con script army should turn on Putin. They are getting knocked back decades every week.

  24. We have unlimited clean energy available to us. If we spent a fraction of the money we spend killing each other we could make efficient use of it.

  25. We should have done that for 15 years. The technology has at least existed since then. But noone wanted to pay 4 cents extra to have the jobs in the renewable sector in your own country. Now everyone is paying 40 cents extra...

  26. we are in fact doing that. Investments have shifted massively towards renewables (largely solar globally) and the rise of electric vehicles will unlock big productivity gains in battery technology so we can actually store the energy for times when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine

  27. Fear? It's a good thing. Accepting reliance on Russian gas was a mistake, a plot we failed to recognize and fell for. It'll take a little work for the modern, democratic world to ween ourselves off Russian gas for good, but it's well worth the effort.

  28. In Belgium our minister of energy Tinne van der straeten has been connected to Gasprom via her partner who is or was a lawyer working for them. She has been pushing out nuclear power for years and now as minister doubled down in favor of gas power plants. She also is a member of the green enviroment party.

  29. The original article that Reuters cites has nothing about "fear" in it. It's a typical german statement that doesn't mention any emotions but only facts.

  30. I m german. We say "I fear [prognose] " not because of emotions but as seeing into future. Its the same as "I think it will... ". Wondered myself how weird its translated.

  31. It's kinda a mistranslation. In German, the phrase "Ich befürchte ..." can be translated "I'm afraid that ..." or "I fear that ...", but it's closer in meaning and intensity to "Unfortunately, ..."

  32. My money is on the obvious, but I really hope we'll find conclusive evidence. Because if Russia did it, it would be excessively hilarious. If someone else did it, it would be very interesting.

  33. Why is this a fear? Stop handing cash to Russia. How obvious does it need to be. They should not be doing any trade with Europe at all. Stop being dependent on war mongering countries that threaten nuclear war.

  34. The problem is, Germany’s progressive energy movement closed all 17 of their nuclear plants for environmental concerns - despite nuclear being the least harmful source of energy - and resorted to Russian gas, so now they have no choice unless they want to abandon all electricity and regress to the Stone Age. Russian politicians might be bad, but German politicians have historically been fairly close rivals

  35. If your energy bill went up 300% I am pretty sure you wouldn't much care about trading with war mongering countries.

  36. What I don’t get is why everyone things Russia did this themselves. It’s the only tool they had to bargaining with. Why blow it up and piss away billions? It doesn’t make sense.

  37. So, the most plausible belief for Russia doing it themselves stems from two options: false flag to blame another country (Ukraine/US) in order to bolster domestic support for conscription.

  38. why start a war and then draft your citizens and make it even less popular? Putin isn't a master strategist like everyone liked to claim

  39. Welp, I'm gonna put the tin foil hat on because to be honest this makes more sense than it should.

  40. Biden didn't say that a few days ago. That speech that made rounds was from mid February 2 months before Russia invaded Ukraine.

  41. I guess it is possible that the Americans did it in some sort of 4D chess move, as Putin would never be able to convincingly deny that he didn't do it, but such a play would be very risky for the US.

  42. If you want legit tinfoil hat stuff .. research fsb support of the green party that moved Germany away from nuclear power and lignite to clean Russian gas…

  43. I figured Russia did this to themselves to drum up national support for their war since everyone is fleeing the country and they think maybe being able to say the rest do the world is attacking them will salvage some public will

  44. Good. Nord Stream was made by a traitor to his country and made Germany one of the countries that depended the most on Russian gas. Hope they stop using any (or coal that poisons and kills French people, for that matter) soon.

  45. I’m honestly surprised there are not emergency shut off valves spaced out along lines like this in the ocean. Unless it’s impossible to do that due to the salt, but just doesn’t make sense to lay that much pipe without a way to protect it if it ever leaked.

  46. It's not done because valves need periodic servicing, and servicing valves 200 ft below the surface of the ocean would require specialized divers and boats to support them.

  47. Good. We don't need to work with the Russians as long as putin is in power. It's clear he wants to make sure Russia does the same with or without him in power

  48. Well since we're were given the choice between buying gas from an evil dictator or speeding up moving to cleaner forms of energy, this makes the choice a lot simpler. Europe is no longer at Russia's mercy.

  49. Great fucking move Russia. Sabotaging yourself beyond repair. Now your economy won’t recover even in 15 years. „Great Russian Idea Mr Pjutin sabotaging EU infrastructure, blyat“. I mean seriously what’s their motive here. The EU will simply test and reactivate mor nuclear reactors, go even more renewable, buy gas elsewhere and try to go H2 in the next decade. And what do you got, a crumbling economy that will be beyond repair even after Putin bites the bullet.

  50. Just a guess. Nord stream 1 damage is too extensive and it can't be fixed. Through a fortunate turn of events the damage to nord stream 2 will be minor and easily fixed. Who could have predicted?

  51. Looks like Western Europe is now locked into their support of the Ukraine War. No chance for them to try and negotiate with Russia for gas when the bitter cold hits in exchange for sanction relief. Ukraine, the US, and insurance that there will be no cracks in the Wester Alliance benefits the most from this.

  52. Which is why it’s so hard to believe Russia did this. Because everyone knows sooner or later, Germany would crack and go back. Now they can’t.

  53. French public servants in the 70s got it right, the 2000s ones let it rot away. We're now scrambling for maintenance but this winter will be cold and expensive for many.

  54. Germany had to export electricity to France this summer because the French had to power down some of their nuclear plants. Funny eh?

  55. Too fucking bad. If only Russia cared for its clients and didn't use its supply as a negotiation weapon and sabotage the pipeline. Now they are never gonna recover their clientele from this.

  56. Kinda good, tho. Right? Why would you ever trust Russia again? Support their regime buying their fucking gas?? Fuck that and fuck them

  57. One massive “cut off your nose to spite your face” type action. Who would have figured. Normally he make such sense.

  58. Good on them, there are plenty of opportunities to either go for renewables, or sign contracts with Norway, America or Arabia now. All while Russia is bleeding to death from shooting into its own kneecaps.

  59. When does the Russian military recognize that Putin’s moves are inevitably going to hurt them and their children more than hurt any other nation including the evil ‘west’

  60. Let's fucking hope so. If it wasn't for the pipeline the West would never let Crimea annexation fly. The existence of the pipeline undermines European security. If it's not done yet we should blow the rest of it ourselves (by that I mean Baltic countries and Ukraine).

  61. Move forward with nuclear / renewables. Fossil fuels will run out anyway, the climate is already damaged from their use and Russia will never be a reliable energy supplier, pipeline or not.

  62. Anything can be fixed. But Germany allowed itself to be leveraged by Russia by staying hooked up to the pipe. Putin wanted to punish NATO members for arming his enemies while they drank from his pipe. This situation will usher in a new age of Nuclear energy. It will be short term pain but long term environmental gain.

  63. Mozdok–Tbilisi pipeline exploded in North Ossetia in 2006 under very similar circumstances, so I think some eyebrows should be raised in Russia's direction.

  64. Another big reason why I think russia probably did this that I haven't seen mentioned yet: Russia blows up nord stream and now the only pipes into Europe are through ukraine, as well as the huge oil and gas reserves, on top of an 'attack by the us' on Russian sovereignty, might be enough to motivate Russians to actually want to fight in Ukraine

  65. The Nord Stream pipes had become useless anyway as Russia refused to deliver more gas in the short term, and nobody in Europe want's to be dependent on Russian gas anymore in the mid - long term.So it's time to nationalize the Nord Stream Pipes in German territorial waters, seal them before they are destroyed by inflowing salt water, and reuse them as soon as possible to connect new floating LNG terminals to the European gas grid.

  66. I thought it became unusable when Russia started to claim “Lebensraum” in the west. And Germany wanted it’s energy sector to be carbonfree by 2050, anyway. It’s not like they could’ve expected to use Nord Stream again, since they wouldn’t even need it anymore.

  67. No longer being able to use Nord Stream is a (badly disguised) blessing. We can now drop all pretenses and choose a side. We should not want any dependency on Russia at all.

  68. There’s a Dutch company that has the capabilities to fix the pipes by creating a dry chamber.. just give the word, they are waiting for the job

  69. I don't see a problem here. Whoever blew up those pipes just did Europe a huge favor. Dependency is never a good thing. And cold turkey is usually the best solution. Some may suffer in the short term, some may even die. But in the long term, Europe will definitely be better off. Dependency is slow death.

  70. On a side note, not implausible to think that U.S. or other entity damaged these pipelines. Russia is an obvious scapegoat and when everything freezes this winter, Russia becomes fucked for decades. They also can't bypass U.S./NATO sanctions by selling oil to the likes of India, China, etc.

  71. Lol. We already are, you just can’t repair the damages of being on Putins dick for 16 years of dipshit government in one year of the new one.

  72. Good riddance! Now build windmills, solar power plants, re-open pumped-storage power plants, do everything possible to get rid of the dependency on gas! A better opportunity will never come!

  73. Let’s see DO NOT depend on Russia for anything they can at anytime shut it off to punish you or make you bend to their will

  74. Nord Stream 1 was a bad idea when it was first proposed. It's still a bad idea today, and if you repair it it will also be a bad idea. Leave it and move on.

  75. And the shadow guys continue to destroy the world as we all twiddle our thumbs and wonder when the next season of “insert stupid show name” is coming out.

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