Haitian gangs' gruesome murders of police spark protests as calls mount for U.S., Canada to intervene

  1. Yeah, Haiti damn near has every single problem a civilization can have all at the same time. You name it, Haiti has that problem.

  2. Plus, the minute the US does anything about it, everyone on Reddit will just make jokes about "must be oil there" or "oh look, America's back to killing brown people again" and so on.

  3. haiti is a complete shithole. Remember when Conan O'Brian went to Haiti for an episode of his travel comedy show, and he only stayed in the resort areas of Haiti and had an armed mob of goons around him at all times, and even with that this one girl was saying how evil white people are, and everyone was very disrespectful, 'because white', and Conan is just like "Its a poor country "But with the best people and culture!!"". Whenever someone says that line it means its a third world shithole.

  4. 1st would country hostile takeover is literally the only solution now. The country has absolutely no viable resources and inconveivable corruption

  5. We’ve asked multiple times for the international Community to intervene. The DR is ready to support an international solution but we won’t be heading it.

  6. They've readied their military at the fortified border for their own security, they were invaded by Haiti so they don't like them.

  7. I believe we tried to send aid a few months back and Haiti rejected it (if my memory serves right) and pretty much the president saying now “you have to sort out your shit” and strengthening the border since a lot of families are escaping and gangs are trying to take advantage to pass the border. The population is a bit more 50-50 where one side feels sorry for what’s happening since most people are not to blame and the other half have xenophobic comments whenever Haiti is mentioned in a conversation.

  8. DR has always had a stance of "We can help, but Haiti is not our responsibility". DR is way better off, but it still has it's own issues to take care of, and Haiti will not be one of them, at least on their own. DR and Haiti are completely separate countries in every sense except for the island they share, and any person even remotely suggesting unification has no fucking idea what they're talking about.

  9. Actually if an intervention is to happen one of the first steps should be to get a UN mandate for it. Yo at least have something resembling legitimacy instead of just another unilateral interference.

  10. The last time the UN sent foreign peacekeeping troops into Haiti (in 2010) they reintroduced cholera to the country. The outbreak killed over 9,000 people and infected almost 800,000.

  11. Honest answer: because it’s expensive and complicated and the UN would much rather someone else handle it. This isn’t a matter of disbursing some aid after a hurricane. This involves combat operations against well armed criminal gangs with an ambiguous structure. It’s a recipe for a shirt intervention turning into an indefinite one.

  12. The violence has far surpassed what the UN can handle. It is essentially being run by nobody but the street gangs that have formed.

  13. My retired parents used to help keep the books with a non profit here in Canada that collected sxhool books and hygiene products for communities in Haiti. The local government would tell them what was needed most and they would fill a container full of whatever was on the list and ship it down. The year before covid, someone started seizing the containers once they were offloaded in port and demanded entry fee in the thousands of dollars in order to release the container to the local shipping company. All attempts at communication failed. The Canadian government got involved and the final verdict was that there was nothing to be done. They couldn't even figure out if the actual authorities were in possession of the container, if a corrupt arm of the government was doing this or if it was a gang. It was happening to many shipments of humanitarian supplies sent by small organisations. The government strongly suggested to not pay the made up fees because there was no guaranty the container would actually be released, or that it was still unlooted. The organization didn't have that kind of money anyway. After the 4th container got taken, they gave up on Haiti and decided to help another cause in another country.

  14. Thank you for sharing. I was scared half way that you will suddenly mention how in 1998 the Undertaker threw Mankind 14 feet through the announcers table during death in a cell match. Happy you didn’t go there.

  15. This is standard human behavior. You can see the start of it even in the US, if rule of law breaks down such as from a bad natural disaster. One person starts looting a store, a few people notice and decide they deserve something to make up for all the bad, even more join in because "everyone else is doing it".

  16. Fix their immediate problems without fixing any of the core underlying corruption that theyre profiting off of. We have been in Haiti before, we have no reason to go back

  17. I know... I'm not sure anything can be done at this point that wouldn't just be a bandaid solution. Haiti is a failed state - and it isn't their fault - but it's what it is.

  18. Haiti literally invaded the Dominican Republic and occupied them and some even say attempted to genocide their population. I dont think you want them to be the ones to go to Haiti.

  19. None of those countries have strong enough economies to brunt the burden of rebuilding Haiti, and many have the same issues that would worsen if they spent their funds on another country's problems.

  20. At the moment, Haiti is the definition of a failed state. I don't see how outside intervention changes that prospect. Without a legitimate source of authority from within things will just go back to the way they were as soon as Americans and Canadians leave. Not to mention the obvious problem of predominantly white foreign soldiers enforcing laws. There would be military casualties and a low level insurgency.

  21. Yup, I thought the term 'failed state' too once someone listed all of Hatis problems. It would probably take an invasion to get things back in order.

  22. It's a very sad situation... My family has an orphanage up in the mountains near Francois and everyone was told to head into the woods as there was a hit out for one of the people in charge.. truly heart breaking 💔

  23. Let's be real, Haiti is by definition a failed state and has been one for nearly a century now, no "interventions" will work unless it's a fully cleaned house with a 20+ year occupation to education, clothe, feed, and rebuild it's institutions and a new generation of Haitians from the ground up. Unfortunately there is no country on earth willing to clean up this shit heap of a country nor is it practical to do so due to various reasons (economic, political, moral issues).

  24. Absolutely. A country would have to go in and wipe out the gangs, maintain law enforcement responsibility for decades to keep new ones from forming, pump a ton of money into the country to rebuild infrastructure, promote a stable system of government, improved education, work to root out corruption and the whole time the people that benefitted financially from the old system would be screaming bloody murder while eventually much of the domestic population would tire of your presence.

  25. Sorry, but what does the US or Canada have to do with this? This shouldn't be handled by specific countries, if anything this needs to be a united international initiative.

  26. U.S. being called upon so when rescue fails there is someone to blame. I'm sick of the U.S. being in a damned if you do or don't position, depending on who gets the outcome they want. "Come rescue us from our shitty rulers." oops, wait I mean: "Keep your nose out of our business"

  27. The US also can’t even handle relationships between its citizens and police, we’re in no position to be mitigating that problem in other countries.

  28. Yes. I am so fucking tired of smug Europeans complaining when we try to help and then complaining when we don't try to help. Literally no winning.

  29. I don't want another Afghanistan. It's was painful to watch the withdrawal. All that money and blood wasted so they could hand the country to the taliban. We shouldn't help unless we are asked. Let China deal with Haiti and annex it.

  30. As an outsider, don't intervene, this is the end for Haiti- they're just looking for someone else to blame.

  31. and then complain about foreign interference later? no thanks, take care of your own problems.

  32. Ya, I'm pretty done with the US intervening with other countries. We got our own dumpster fire of affairs to deal with.

  33. yeah; if we go in with the army and install a government by force; we'll either have to keep sitting their protecting them or they'll just get ousted again. Honestly, Haiti needs to be absorbed into another country. They have no infrastructure, no money, no resources, unless some country's willing to hold their hand the whole way to success, they're not going anywhere but down.

  34. That's a really ignorant view of the US foreign policies. The interventions in Bosnia or Kosovo went well. Kosovars actually love the US more than the americans lol.

  35. World: Oh please, US, please come be the world police! Please we need you and your billions, please help! Intervene on us daddy! 🥺

  36. There are 2 major issues at play here that need to be addressed. The first is that any intervention needs to be UN sanctioned. There needs to be no debate about the legitimacy of a US intervention. The days of one nation deciding on their own that another nation needs military interventions should be long behind so we can move away from things like the Ukraine war.

  37. They're still dealing with the cholera outbreak started by the UN. The UN fought accepting blame for years, even though that strain of cholera was not present in Haiti before. It was (I think) a Thai strain, and the outbreak started downhill from the Thai UN barracks. They built sanitary facilities that poured down on the locals. The UN fought the accusation tooth and nail. Oh, and the sexual abuse of refugees by the peacekeepers was also a thing. Girls having to perform sex acts to get their food rations and underage girls getting pregnant by the troops.

  38. I broadly agree with what you are saying. But Afghanistan is not Haiti and I don't think the outcome of intervention would be the same. Afghanistan failed because it is on the other side of the fucking planet, surrounded by US adversaries like China, Russia, Iran and Pakistan that desperately wanted the US to be humiliated. Haiti is a 2 hour plane ride from Miami and with the exception of Cuba, surround by at worst neutral allies. The DR and local communities wouldn't be harboring terrorist warlords and gang leaders in the event of an intervention. I don't think you would see sustained insurgent activities against intervention forces.

  39. Yeah I’m not sure the public opinion can be turned to nation building right now. I thought we were about to go full isolationist before Ukraine, but supplying weapons to another army is easier for people to accept than sending troops into what would be bound to be a very long occupation that all sides would likely be unhappy with

  40. Let's try something new, please add your own solution below, it couldn't possibly be crazier than mine. : For 2 days let's airdrop enough magic mushroom tea to trip out the whole nation and see what the results are.

  41. First what we're going to need to do is hire Geoffrey Rush, the actor who played Captain Hector Barbarossa in the Pirates of the Caribbean films. He's going to get into his Barbarossa costume and land on the shores of Port au Prince in an old wooden pirate ship.

  42. Besides magic mushroom tea not being shelf-stable it would be a lot less of a logistical burden to drop dried & ground up mushrooms with instructions for how to prepare the tea (boil water, insert packet, and consume in a safe and relaxed environment).

  43. Send as much food as we can on 3 aircraft carriers, each being helmed by one of the 3 legendary culinary lords. Guy Fieri, Ainsley Harriot, and Uncle Roger. Nation experiences a cultural Renaissance and becomes the food capital of the world.

  44. As a Canadian, no thank you. We were there for years and nothing changed. We gave millions of $ and nothing changed. I don't want anymore of our soldiers to die cleaning up their mess.

  45. That’s why Canada should step up to the plate. They are one of those voices in the chorus you mention. Let them try to carry a stick for once

  46. Pretty much a failed state at this point. I very much doubt this country can be saved any time soon without just straight up invading and taking over.

  47. I am glad at least one person sees it that way, i live "next door" in the Dominican Republic, we share the island.. For as long as i can remember there has been an international consensus including the U.S. that have been pushing for a unification of the island... And the international community can not seem to understand that this would not "FIX" Haiti... it would just make it somebody else's problem. I am not going to go deep into this, but if anyone is interested in learning the real reasons Haiti once the RICHEST COLONY IN THE WORLD by the 18th century is the way it is today, please by all means read this

  48. Seeing Reddit discuss Haiti is always interesting. We like to think we know the answer to everything and that it’s always just a matter of “well you have to do this…” but with this subject we lack even the most basic perspective outside of some crappy YouTube documentaries, there isn’t a single answer, or an easy answer, there isn’t even a “right thing to do”

  49. From a view of a Vietnamese, this situation feel like the whole Khmer Rouge situation here when we invaded and occupied Cambodia and later suffered the consequences by the international community while superpowers supported the Khmer Rouge. It maddening that we got fucked over doing a world a favor trying to destroy a despot almost manically organization yet we to blame and suffer economic and diplomatic blame while the UN never even gave to shit to looked into the Khmer Rouge until decades on.

  50. The US has actually been pretty involved in Haitian affairs. We did basically invade and occupy the country from 1915-34. Before that we invaded and took $500,000 from their National Bank and brought it to New York for "safe-keeping". Lastly, while we officially left in 1934 we controlled their public finances until 1947 where we continued to split with France about 40% of their national income for debt repayment.

  51. Maybe African Union can send French speaking peace keeping troops…white countries will only be seen as colonizers or invaders. Time for the rest of the world to take some responsibility for their brothers and help them out like grown up nations do. Why always the West? Or maybe China and India can do something. Lets see how much the rest of the world really cares.

  52. Ironically, it was the UN peacekeeping force from Brazil/Nepal who brought cholera to Haiti and were then expulsed for misbehavior.

  53. why bother --- we'll only be blamed for the inevitable shit show- and after billions of dollars are wasted and NOTHING improves - we'll slink out after a black hawk down situation

  54. Nope, we are done helping countries with internal problems. Look at Afghanistan, not only did we waste lots of money but we accomplished nothing and everyone blames us. The only time we should be helping other countries now is with situations like Ukraine or natural disasters.

  55. twice, once in 1915 to colonize it like Cuba. 2nd in 94 with SC backing to remove a military dictator. but even with a UN mission there for 6 years after, no real improvement occurred.

  56. This sounds like Afghanistan. Where we go in and bring some stability, try to build infrastructure that gets blown up and then questioned why we were there in the first place.

  57. Not for the USA wasting even more money on situations that don't involve us. Especially since if we do, we'll get shit on for being the world police. Despite being literally asked to do that. Take care of yourself!

  58. “The world hates America! You think you have the right to police everyone? Stay out of my country and stay out of my business”

  59. 19 years US occupation (1915-1934) for exactly the same situation. The US left and the decline began again. Why? I once heard Haiti referred to as the worlds oldest nation-building project, and its failure is used to discredit the idea of nation building altogether. I never thought of it that way before, but anymore I can't say what do to to solve this mess.

  60. Sure, let's send troops over so Euro Redditors can have one more thing to jerk themselves into a lather over. "US is coloniser oppressors and are doing this because Haiti is black and they hate black." Here's a better idea. Let the French send people over to help. Or the Germans. The ones on here certainly know what's best for everyone.

  61. I thought we weren't the world police? Sick of countries begging for interference, then complaining and scapegoating us when things aren't perfect.

  62. Dear other UN members this one’s on you. Just because we are close doesn’t make it our problem respectfully yours the USA. Maybe stop bashing us after we help every time we are asked and we may think about it.

  63. Every time we have helped them, it’s gone back to total anarchy within weeks or months of us leaving. It’s time for them to figure their own shit out.

  64. Why does the U.S. have to intervene? Not our fucking problem.....the world complains about us getting involved with other countries BS, but then they ask for us to get involved when something goes "wrong". Let them handle their own shit!

  65. Everyone calm down, the US and Canada are not going to Haiti. “Calls to intervene” mean some people asked for something, nothing more. No one is going to stick their foreign policy penis into the hornets nest that is Haiti. It will still be just as fucked in 2123.

  66. Any intervention would be a disaster. It would just be military law under a different name by foreign powers. Soldiers would not know the custom or the locals. Would have zero trust from the community and would just be a blind hammer swinging. Think Rwanda and Somalia.

  67. Nobody fucking read the article, don’t they? It’s not Haiti that asked for US/ Canada intervention but the UN special envoy. Haiti requested aid from the UN.

  68. No. Haiti has nothing to offer ( that i'm aware tho ) and last time someone intervined nothing really changed so no. Haitians need a huge cultural change.

  69. What's the end game? Lets say we send a big enough force that manages to curb the current violence; then what? Do we stay forever? Is there any real belief the people and government there aren't just going to revert things right after?

  70. No we don't need to be called coloniser anymore. They can sort this out on their own. Any change not generated by the people of haiti will not be valued or respected.

  71. The US needs to stay the hell out of it! We fuck up more than we fix. Let the Haitian people figure their own shit out. They don't need anyone to intervene.

  72. Unfortunately this may be a situation that Haiti might have to dig itself out of. International aid isn't going to do the trick as history shows it hasn't really worked before

  73. The USA is not the world's janitorial service, nor are we obligated to babysit a nation until they learn to behave. We have our own house to clean. Let them take out their own trash.

  74. No thanks. Intervention doesn't help anyone (or at least that's the impression I get from the overwhelming criticism we get/have gotten almost every time we've attempted it). Haiti should fix their own problems and we'll focus on ours.

  75. Mandatory recommendation to check out the Revolutions podcast episodes on the Haitian Revolution. People asking for the US to intervene (again) might learn a thing or two.

  76. Someone, declare me King of world hegemony. I’ll be a fair ruler and will totally straighten this thing out decently

  77. Sorry but Haiti is beyond our repair, we can't even fix our government and it's got no problems compared to Haiti.

  78. Womp womp, as much as I know the US OR Canada could sort this out. Just tired of being the world police to countries. If anything I want the US,Canada and Mexico, to join up and purge cartels.

  79. Intervene in what? Haiti isn’t a province or territory, enough pissing tax money out the window in other countries, look at the disaster Canada is becoming. It’s not 19-fucking-94 anymore

  80. I don't think the optics of having majority white US and Canadian soldiers enforcing law and order in a majority black country is a good image. Haiti earned it's freedom and independence by throwing off the yoke of slavery 100s of years ago. Send in the UN.

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