The anti work crowd don’t know what they are talking about

  1. I’m anti health insurance being tied to your employment. It gives big advantage to corporations over people with families. Government option should have been passed, but hey we got health insurance exchanges.

  2. Thats the carrot on the stick that the government uses to keep people in the workforce. Where I work, there are a ton of people that should be able to retire but can’t because of health insurance. So they have to wait till them and their spouses are eligible fir medicare before they can retire. If universal medicare was a thing, a lot more people would retire in their mid to late 50s, and the government cannot allow that

  3. I have limited experience, but is that really true? My work has $400 a month insurance, they pay half. I found better insurance for 187 a month with minimal effort

  4. There are cheap or free options that you can get in the US. I’d know cuz I’ve used them in the past

  5. Only reason work and health insurance are tied together is because of laws on the books that mandate this situation. Remove that law, and you go a long way to solving the issue

  6. I think government regulation would be better than government option. The government cannot run something like healthcare correctly.

  7. This is the kind of stuff that the anti-work movement started with. Tough name, but reasonable demands. Now it's mainly whiners that are mad about the wrong things.

  8. Totally agreed until the government option. The government has allowed all of this to happen and the last thing I would want is a board of elected officials making decisions on what is cost effect for them to treat me for. The government can’t even run the VA correctly so I wouldn’t trust them with anything else.

  9. Speak for yourself, I got fined cause I couldn’t afford the options given by employer or government. No healthcare and a fine for years.

  10. Government plans will most definitely suck and reduce the quality of health care and getting insurance privately will most definitely be way to expensive for the individual.

  11. I agree corporations shouldn’t hold the keys to access good healthcare, but why the heck do you want to give that type of power to the government?

  12. You can thank Roosevelt's botched handling of the great depression for this one. This came in due to one of his regulations. They should have done nothing but let businesses operate and the depression would have correct itself faster without introducing these problems for over a century

  13. I'm a ti work for my husband right now. I want him to just fucking either retire or stop taking call back. It's a holiday, a major one, and you know where he is? The same place he's been for the past 38 Thanksgivings (we've been married 40 yrs in January): at work. I'm sick of spending every major holiday with his family without him. He's a senior technologist, he should have either Thanksgiving or Christmas+ Christmas Eve off by now as he's been at his hospital for 32! yrs!

  14. That’s very much a you and your husband problem. Sorry it sucks but if this story is remotely true after 38 years the husband is choosing to do this.

  15. Nah love, I am just like him. I hate holidays w/ family. I choose to work. If I am off, I lie and tell them I have to work then I go fish. Or sleep in. Or whatever I want. Without having to answer to anyone.

  16. And when he retires, it will leave a gap in his life he won't know how to fill, because doing productive things without a master, on your own time and terms, is kind of not allowed.

  17. I feel for youre husband. In a cst/FA. The call can suck sometimes. Only reason im not on call today was due to me being really sick right now. This is my last year on call for a hospital. Im going into private practice for a few doctors and i can pick and chose when to take call. I hated being the lower guys on the totem and being forced to take the same call every year.

  18. As a fellow lab tech I feel this. I left a job where I literally couldn't go to my own doctor's appointments because I'd get called in an apparently no one could cover. Within four months of my new job I finally got to see my regular doctor, an allergist twice, and ENT and a podiatrist. All doctors I couldn't schedule or had to cancel and pay a fee for no show appointments due to my work. I wish more people knew about the burden lab techs have. Most labs have 24/7/365 departments and those that don't have on calls for all holidays. It's not just nurses and doctors. And we're the ones who actually give data for many diagnoses so nurses and doctors can start treatment.

  19. Idk man. I make $200k. The job treats me very well and I enjoy it. I worked hard to get here, but I had a lot of breaks and good luck too. The truth is though, I don’t deserve the fruits of my labour—a life with few monetary concerns—more than anyone else.

  20. Hard agree. My wife and I recently changed jobs and both are earning considerably more now. We've essentially "made it" in life and are looking forward to achieving some of our dreams. At the same time, now that we're making more, I am completely fine with paying more if it means people are being paid fairly. I'm fine with paying more in taxes because of what we now earn. I can't stand those who achieve greater heights and then complain about paying their taxes or whatever else they have to pay. I hate it when they can hire people to help them legally cheat the system so they can save even more. I hate these companies making record profits but are so incredibly greedy that they won't increase their worker pay and benefits.

  21. This is a good viewpoint. For every one person in your situation, who has worked hard and found success in whatever field, there are hundreds of thousands who have worked just as hard, or even sometimes much harder, and achieved nothing. Those like yourself who can appreciate your situation, yet still fight for those who can't fight for themselves, are a good ally to have. Empathy is the one thing that humanity is short on. Instead of "I got mine, and I want everybody else to have the same chance" it's "I got mine, fuck you."

  22. You said it all...I worked my ass of all my life..I bartended my way to live in NYC by myself and travel the world...but the min I went to get a job after I finished my degree..I was constantly lowballed..and not one salary was worth giving up my bar job...it was only currently..after I almost completed my Masters was I getting job offers that could pay the bills..but also had to take on tons of debt..but Ill ssy this..the min Im a licensed psychologist & have my own practice will I be making enough to truly live dignified life...

  23. I think you’re under the assumption that the anti-work crowd people are financially struggling? Like a lot have really good jobs they just don’t think people should have their labor exploited.

  24. I agree. I'm comfortably middle class now but I can see how we're all suffering. It's fucking up our entire nation and culture to have so many people living in misery. Are you tired of homelessness, drug addiction, child abuse, theft and violence? Are you tired of everyone being miserable and assholish? People not raising their kids right? All of these things go hand-in-hand with extreme poverty.

  25. Agreed. I’m an engineer, make good money, financially astute and plan to retire very early, hate exploitation and don’t agree with modern capitalism and the amount of “bullshit jobs” it creates.

  26. The post is very clearly a "pull up your bootstraps" perspective.. I'd imagine this OP is of the baby-boomer generation or someone heavily influenced by it.

  27. yeah i make a decent living with a lot of discretionary spending etc, that doesnt mean i want to work 50 hours a week for the rest of my life bc of zero social benefits

  28. Yup. I’m upper middle class senior management at a fortune 100 consultancy. I work far too much and hard to have the American dream. I’m not rich but I’m not worried about going bankrupt if I have to goto the hospital . I support the idea that everyone should have that security and more.

  29. I'm in that situation. My wife and I have always done fairly well. In the last few months though we've both gotten new jobs with considerable pay increases. We're actually beginning to achieve our dreams. At the same time, I'm a very strong proponent of people getting their fare shake of things and not being screwed over as a norm. People should never be exploited for profit. I can understand that some smaller companies may go through a challenging time and need everyone to help out for 1-2 months, but it seems that a lot of major corporations are expecting everyone to "pull their weight to help the company" all the time, when said company is raking in billions in profit. When I see companies that could double or triple their employee pay or benefits and it would have virtually no impact on their profits and yet they refuse to do so, it makes my blood boil. I can't abide it and actively avoid companies that do so. I'll never forget what it felt like to live pay check to paycheck, or to get nervous everytime I give my debit card to someone to pay for my goods. And fuck the idea of "I got mine so fuck you and yours" mentality. I'm raising kids who will live in this world and will need to make something of themselves. Their success shouldn't be dependent on their parents helping them out. And although its unlikely, my wife and I could fall on hard times in the future for a myriad of reasons and then we'd be at the mercy of a system that doesn't help you in any way. Sorry, rant over.

  30. I'm not anti-work, I'm anti-getting exploited for my labor by jerks who get tax breaks and make record profits but still drive up prices.

  31. The restaurant I work at is having record profits and has a higher % increase in sales than any of the 12 other ones in the group but they can't afford raises right now....

  32. Opposition to work isn't opposition to productive activity. It's just opposition to the exploitative system that transforms that labor into work.

  33. This. I actually love being productive, helping people, being creative, problem solving, being a leader. I have an established career and have been working since I was a teen. I don’t like seeing people’s labor not being compensated fairly. I think the majority of people part of the anti-work moment agree with me and that the title isn’t that literal. Capitalism is destroying our planet, the people who live on it, and all of these other amazing things we’ve been gifted. Exploitation of labor and resources will be our downfall, but the demands of capitalism’s goal of infinite growth through any means necessary is pure evil.

  34. I like “work reform” better than “anti work”. We want to reform work, I’m not against working. I actually WANT to work for a living as long as that living is a quality lifestyle with good work life balance.

  35. This is why their branding as anti-work is so stupid. They need to find a more accurate and persuasive name. Corporate overlords would've loved to label them anti-work, but they did it themselves.

  36. My employer started charging our clients more and we have doubled our productivity and members or our team have brought new clients because they are bilingual...and still have not received a raise in 2 years.

  37. Same. I was antiwork until I got a job which offers annual profit % bonuses. Plus guaranteed raise above 2%. And they expect me to Do the job at the company interest not spray my sweat and blood all over the floor while wrecking my body and my brain every minute of the day.

  38. Ya OP not getting it. I am a hard as fuck worker, but if you are stealing most of what people produce, then why would they work hard?

  39. "Have you considered that you're wrong and you should just work harder? No I don't have any specific complaints beyond literally the same old capitalist propaganda about hard work." --OP

  40. Every single right you’re given as a worker was earned on the backs of people brave enough to risk their livelihood and unionize.

  41. I make 75k a year working in supply chain and im antiwork. It's not about being paid to do nothing or being lazy. Its about not wanting to work 80 hours a week for a shared bedroom that costs 50% of your aftertax income. Its about not letting employers or threatening to fire you for not coming in on a day you're not scheduled. Its about employees taking back power in a world we see moving back to the capitalism of the 1910s.

  42. Best of luck to you, hope something good comes your way. Especially since rent is pretty pricey nowadays

  43. Man I would kill to be able to stay at my parents again. I make 1600 a month after taxes and healthcare from work. and about 1400 of that goes to Rent and bills. I'm so fucking sick of this paycheck by paycheck bullshit.

  44. This is how I feel. I am (now) making a good amount of money. I was in school for a long time (and have the loans to prove it) and worked at a ton of jobs along the way.

  45. I'm not anti work, I'm work reform. I have an excellent career in STEM. I make great money but I am appalled by the collapsing middle class. I think most people just want to be able to live a middle class life without killing themselves. I think this means a living wage for all jobs and corporations not being subsidized by the government. I think the wealthiest citizens should pay a fair share of taxes and our taxes should go towards infrastructure, education, and enrichment of our nation as a whole. I think workers need protection and fair wages. If the best job you can do is flip burgers and you never strive for more in your life, then damn at least let a person afford their own burger and place to sleep even if it's just a studio apartment.

  46. I'm considered wealthy for my age, especially compared to my peers. I'm still anti-work because I know most businesses try to exploit their workers. I've learned early on that all corporate profit is just unpaid wages. I know how much my skills cost and I'm very aggressive when it comes to negotiating a salary. That's all thanks to the tips I've gotten from that subreddit.

  47. The older I get, the more I realize nobody actually knows anything and are just skating by. Especially in the labor market.

  48. The antiwork crowd are tired of being payed shit while CEO's that do nothing get billions. Nobody is afraid of hard work we're just tired of a life of hard work with no reward.

  49. Exactly. Nobody is saying that we should absolutely have zero work whatsoever, just that we get paid and treated fairly. Even if we did have no work people would still make work for themselves out of boredom or self-betterment.

  50. I make 75k a year, have a good job with benefits and an amazing work life balance. I support the anti work crowd as I want others to be able to attain a similar standard of living, and I hate the idea of corporations exploiting people, which is all too common these days.

  51. I get the sentiment but to say a CEO does nothing isn’t fair, the decisions they make drive the company’s direction and sets them up for success in the long term, respectfully the only other way to do this would be some sort of council of experts but then you’d prob have to pay them too no?

  52. OP would of shit talked unions in the early 1900s and 1940s-50s. "They don't know what they're talking about, they should just work harder instead of complaining about getting weekends off."

  53. Aren't salaries in the UK insanely low though? I'm sure it varies from industry to industry, but I remember hearing what some of my UK colleagues were making at a past job and it was barely enough to survive (in London anyway).

  54. This. I scrambled and struggled through the worst of jobs to get to my "privileged position" of making just enough to cover living with no days off or I may miss a bill. My better than average is still exploitation

  55. Well, be that as it may, potatoes are clearly superior to carrots due to their contribution in ww2. All the best air squadrons flew T-34 tanks piloted by potatoes.

  56. While I'm sure there are lazy parasites that glom onto the anti work group, it still makes more sense than being "pro work". Would you really prefer to give the VAST majority of your life to working a job that you hate for the sake of new phones, a new car, and all of capitalisms pathetic treats. Society is crumbling, and it's because capitalism is a meat grinder for the body and soul. Everything is a transaction, hence almost no social interaction or community. What if we used the technological advances to keep everyone fed and clothed, and taken care of and stopped buying and eating the poison this system is incentivized to produce? It takes personal growth and a love for those who are "sad" and suffering to come to this conclusion. Unfortunately, most people don't give a damn about anyone or anything but themselves.

  57. Yeah that was pretty much Marx’s gripe with capitalism. However, some form of work is necessary for society to function. I think a lot of these anti work types seem to think that if you get rid of capitalism then there’d be no work which isn’t exactly true.

  58. I think the problem people have is if your working a full time job you shouldn't be struggling. I guess your right in the sense that they just need a second full time job instead of a reddit account? Easy to save money if your working the whole week I guess but what's the point if you cant spend any time with your family

  59. Life == work. Most people are anti-work BECAUSE they choose to put effort into life rather than grinding at a thankless job for a substandard wage.

  60. I think it's mostly they don't have any creative endeavors or goals outside of working a standard job so that's all they really know, and anything outside of that framework is unthinkable.

  61. Anti-work does not mean "against work" or "do not want to work". It's an unfortunate mis-nomer. My guess is that you're super young (maybe low 20s, if that) or rich (doubtful since you'd probably not be on here posting that opinion).

  62. I worked 12 hour days in a factory for $9.01 an hour for most of my adult life, after taxes I'd take home maybe $1000 a month. If I wanted the health insurance offered it would come out to $220 a month, nearly 25% of my wages despite the fact it didn't even cover the cost of appointments or medications, even with the cheapest rental I could find I was still paying $485 a month for a run down trailer, nearly 50% of my income. I and everyone else deserves to live comfortably while working, honestly your opinion isn't unpopular, it's disgusting.

  63. I would agree, life takes work. I cannot deny that the modern work culture and atmosphere is total bullshit. I’ll work for my well being, if there is no way to improve my standing in a work place I will not over extend myself over it, nor will I attempt to make things any easier for the company. It really comes down to respect for me; and employers have no respect for employees.

  64. I love to work. Doing something I enjoy on a daily basis while being in a environment where it‘s not senseless waste of time and more productive time spent with colleagues and like-minded people. I do hate the fact doing that 40+ hours a week, with little to no compensation for the time I cannot spend with my family, my friends or doing other necessities in my private life such as cleaning, grocery shopping (which I cannot afford since I do not earn enough for the current euro-inflation rate of fucking 10%) and all that while hearing „you‘re not putting enough work in for the company“. I‘m all here for work, I‘m not here for being robbed tho

  65. Haha if anything they KNOW they don’t have life’s problems figured out. Been following them for a while and love the messages of many of them.

  66. If it were possible for all people being treated poorly by an unfair society to just "work harder" and get better jobs or whatever, who would do the jobs they're doing? Someone has to, because they are in a lot of cases essential to the running of society, and therefor should merit fair treatment. I'm a software engineer, if I stop going into work nothing changes because most of the industry I work in does bullshit work. If supermarket workers stop going into work, then useless parasites like me would starve.

  67. If you’re just assuming everyone who has an opinion you disagree with is lazy, you’re just making excuses to not question your own opinions

  68. I’m not on the low end of the totem pole, and I think I’ve still worked pretty hard to get my due, but I absolutely would consider myself anti work

  69. The whole movement exists because of the way that corporations and businesses exploit work. I have to say, the group is empowering those who might not be aware of the rights they have. There needs to be more power for the people in this country -- and this movement is a great way for those with knowledge and experience to educate those who are unaware of the power they hold.

  70. Very good points. I know that I've let myself be taken advantage of my entire working life, but now that I am a part of that sub I'm angry enough to not let it happen again. I honestly didn't even know it was illegal for your employer to tell you that you can't talk about your wages. I learned that from the sub. I wish I had learned it earlier because my last boss sent us emails regularly that threatened us about doing that, and also had signs up stating you would be reprimanded or fired for talking about it. I also worked there for 7 years, without a raise, because I was a doormat. The boss sent emails about once a month telling us to never ask for a raise because he doesn't give them. I told myself that I should quit, that was the first week of working there, but I stayed for 7 years because I'm terrible at enacting change in my life and I've always had a compulsion to kick ass at whatever job I have. So I just went in every day, kicked ass, took more and more responsibility, became "the man," etc. Now I know that if I'm doing the managers' jobs that I should be paid more. That if I'm the only one that works in more than one department in the company, I should be paid more. That if "you're the man, you're the one I go to if I need something done right and fast," then you deserve to get a raise.

  71. I don't understand why people need to spend >35% of their lives working to make other people money—and not middle managers or shit like that. I'm talking CEOs, the dudes making 500x what the average employee makes (most of whom, contrary to popular belief, are not self-made but almost always start from a place of robust to extreme wealth). So even if you're raking in a decent chunk of change and can live fairly comfortably, you're still essentially making another person a shitload of cash when if you worked probably 3 hours a day, you could afford to feed and clothe yourself and your family—but no, bitch, you gotta work 8+ hours a day. Respect the hustle.

  72. Sure, and that’s definitely true. Anyone who is poor if they want to can just put a little effort into selling drugs and their life will improve drastically, and the risk isn’t too much worse than the housing market tbh. The point is however people ought not have to do that. Now I have issues with them in so far as work didn’t used to mean things you do to make barely enough money to pay rent, it used to mean things you did to survive and do what you’re passionate about in the time you have left, ideally combine the two. The issue is essentially the distribution of land, the dominion based property system which even Locke would admonish, and more generally a lack of popular organization and a glut of corporate-state organization.

  73. People complaining here should just shut up and get some rich parents! Trust me, that's all you need. The rest is not difficult. Oh yeah, and get them really early in your life.

  74. The anti-work sub is legitimately filled with idiots. Im proud to say I got myself banned from there. I just couldn’t keep quiet every time a ridiculous thing would pop up on my general feed. It’s nothing but one sided stories, screenshots of bs boss/employee texts, and just general complaining. Only the fuckcars people are bigger idiots.

  75. Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!

  76. Yea the anti-work sub is full of lazy toxic trash. They almost roped me in with talk of worker exploitation and fair treatment. But over time I realized they just don’t want to do anything and think that should be ok.

  77. I sympathize with their sentiment but I’m always curious how many of them would maintain their views if they had any actual understanding/education of how any company’s business/economic practices were run

  78. Personally, I'm not anti-work, I do believe that humans need to perform some sort of stuff for the collectivity and for themselves.

  79. I work in tech. I have a great job with great hours and good benefits. I believe everyone deserves this so I will support those who don't have it. Just because I am not suffering doesn't mean I can turn a blind eye to it occuring in our society.

  80. No that is not the issue. The movement shouldn’t even be anti work it should be anti low wage. Work is not bad but more work for less pay is bad. I think since the 70’s productivity has risen a lot but wages have essentially stagnated. On top of that inflation is so bad and healthcare is tied to your employment in many cases and still costs a lot of money.

  81. Nice, this is a mostly incorrect opinion but it's surely unpopular. Sure there is a demographic within the anti work crowd that is unmotivated, however, you'd be a fool to believe that the system can be beaten by hard work and sucking it up.

  82. OK bro I think you should get away from the system for a second, and look at it objectively. You'll see how f***ed up and dumb it is. It doesn't take a genius.

  83. You get what you pay for… COL has far outstripped pay. No one is gonna bust their ass for a dead end job that doesn’t even afford you half of the basic needs it used to.

  84. Antiwork expectations are just fucking bananas and most of them are not working that much anyway. Like no I don't think it's going to be realistic for you to fund your necessities and every hobby you want and travel on 20 hrs a week.

  85. My guy, I work 8-12 hour shifts 4-6 days a week. I have to stand the whole time with only one 30 minute break. My body is breaking down, and I can feel it. I can barely move, I can barely stand or sleep because of thr pain in my back. Im in so much pain and I cant do anything about it. Made worse by the fact that even so, I still cant afford a place on my own. I have to live with 3 other adults to make ends meet, who are working similar jobs. and we're not even in a safe neighborhood where you would think rent is cheaper. Bills are high, cost of food is high, cost of living is high. And all of us make close to $20 an hour.

  86. I get it.. no one should be exploited. But the entire sub comes off as whining — perpetuates the stereotype that Americans are lazy and entitled and don’t want to work hard.

  87. A lot of their points are valid and raise the issues that almost any working person will share, at least those at the lower end. However they do often take it too far and many members are there because they don't want to work at all, rather than in the pursuit of work reform.

  88. Meritocracy is not nearly as much of a thing as you think it is - the anti work crowd is just more open about the material reality of work in America

  89. I agree, I have heard from them things like “9-5 are all slaves. You think you are free” etc. While they never worked a real day in their life cause they got money from parents of similar way. They are happily anti-work cause they don’t understand that most people have no other choice and need to get their bills paid and children fed.

  90. One the one hand, a lot of minimum wage workers are treated without dignity unnecessarily. On the other hand, a lot of them have wildly naive about how the world works. Some of them are like "no one should ever have to work, we should just be able to relax and make art all day".

  91. That’s like saying that someone isn’t a patriot because they criticize their country, when frankly, you should criticize things that you care about. Putting more work into going with the flow just keeps this lopsided system propped up, when in many ways it does not deserve to be. There are a lot of hard workers out there who are just tired of being gas lit, and are putting a lot of critical thought into seeing the conditions of modern life clearly.

  92. I think you completely misunderstand the “anti work movement”. Being treated fairly and definitely not being exploited especially to work benefits that makes it just so much harder for people trying to move on to bigger things are part of it. Everyone should work hard but it simply isn’t as easy as saying it out loud.

  93. Luck plays a huge role in life. You meet the right people. You have a great inspirational teacher. You read the right books. Someone says the right thing to you at the right time. You are born to the right parents. or... You don't get cancer. Your mom doesn't get hit by a car. Your country isn't stuck in a war. Your government spends money on trying to help people.

  94. Yeah… I’ve had coworkers bitch about having to earn an income to live, and I’m always like …- in what magical fucking scenario do you just get to live without doing anything cause being fucking alive and well isn’t a given in any system. You wanna go scrounge for bramble berries and hunt wild psyduck? Fucking go for it but know it’s very much still work.

  95. I’d say they’re only 65% lazy and entitled. I have seen some very legitimate complaints there about employers, but most are just whiny entitled kids. I got banned from commenting there for attempting to debate one of the entitled in a thread, wasn’t insulting or anything, no warning, just banned.

  96. Actually the Anti-“Anti-Work” crowd have completely missed the message of that movement ever since that blown up incident with the subreddit moderator a few months ago. And the fact that they’ve clearly missed the point is no better exemplified than “if they put half the effort into life as they do complaining they might have better lives”. That’s such an oversimplification of the movements message its amazing. People don’t understand something because it’s too complex for them, so they choose to dog on it.

  97. No comrade in our glorious communist society everyone will have everything they want and working will be completely unnecessary! What's not to understand???

  98. I once spilled coffee on my desk at work. Instead of giving me the day off to recover, and pay for my Uber home, my boss handed me some paper towel instead. I immediately quit and filed a complaint with the UN human rights council.

  99. They are whiny do nothings. Wanting better wages and work environment is one thing, but quiting because you feel a job is beneath you is just shifty. "I don't want to wash that many dishes not paid enough, I'm out" sorry but 12 an hour for washing dishes in this economy seems totally fair.

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