Misinformation is derailing renewable energy projects across the United States

  1. It's the same thing that happened with the public transit system throughout America, you have corporations directly spearheading campaigns built around literal lies and disinformation so they don't have to lose out on a few pennies.

  2. While simulatniously buying out many of the good transit systems, managing them into the ground, and marketing a "better" mass transit means that ultimately sucked ass.

  3. Can someone provide me with an example of a private company taking over a Federal Government program and actually making it better or more effcient?

  4. Disinformation. If you create it with malicious intent it's disinformation. It turns into misinformation when it's spread by unsuspecting victims

  5. My dad grew up in LA, took those trains for a nickel, and told me that the tracks had been bought up and torn up by a consortium of automobile promoting industries. Subsequently, everything he said has turned out to be true.

  6. Yup, oil and the car industry killed off nuclear power plants being built and a national rail road station. Also making cities and towns requiring a fucking car.

  7. Similar to how the major automakers purchased and killed the first legit electric car prototypes a long rule ago.

  8. For someone from outside America, this channel about climate solutions had given me lots of fun, information, but mostly horror on how the hell does America still work:

  9. Yep and when you point out to people that the talking points they're parroting are generated by those corporations and will only work against them, they just dig themselves in deeper about half the time. Not sure how to solve that, once they've been convinced by the massive ad campaign, they don't want to change their minds.

  10. The distinction I see misrepresented the most is the declaration of what those in power stand to lose if not for their investment in misinformation; "lose out on a few pennies"

  11. Yeah, you forgot there are middle eastern shikes and British and US oil companies on top of the oligarchs. Russia only supply 10% of the world oil production.

  12. I still remember hearing people say, "the sound and flashing lights of the turbine will give children seizures. They cause people to go insane." Which is the wild and no amount of actual science would sway them. They were dead set on not allowing wind turbines anywhere near their towns because they feared for their property values so they just followed any information that validated that.

  13. They also don't kill significant numbers of birds and don't create noise significant enough to mess with people.

  14. I think it's so sad how people think about wind turbines since i personally find them very idyllic and would love to live close to one as long as i'm outside the direct range of the shadow

  15. U.S. has the best damn lobbyists in the world confusing every detail of sustainable renewable energy.

  16. It's corruption but we don't call it that way cause the US likes to make lists of countries that are more or less corrupt and come out on top for optics.

  17. I work in renewables in the US. A Lot of the more successful anti-renewable lobbyist groups are funded by oil or pro-establishment corporations. Most of the time, if it's a republican senator, congressperson, or governor; the lobbyists have that person's ear; and with it the AG's office usually isn't far behind wagging a bunch of bogus legal issues (and offloading the associated legal bills) at you.

  18. Murdochs empire needs to be completely pulled apart. All his "journalists" need to never work in the industry again unless they move to China or Russia where they can lick authoritarian boots all they like.

  19. Solar/Wind vs Nuclear is the culture war of energy. Keep us distracted fighting over moral/technical arguments when we should be trying to improve material conditions with both.

  20. And now their work is being done for them by climate activists who push solar and wind and rail against nuclear. Solar and wind are good but not the total solution. This fight against nuclear just prolongs our dependence on fossil fuels.

  21. It is two camps and both are dishonest. People pro nuclear don’t acknowledge that it is not cheap, it is not zero emissions to when you account for mining also, waste have to be stored for up to hundreds of thousands years, no long term storage of waste exists after decades of nuclear power plants. And people pro nuclear tend to overhype the power plants of the future and what will be possible in decades. And regardless how safe power plants are today, there will always be issues since human factor is involved in design, building and operating. And as seen in ukraine, it could potentially be targeted by people who want to cause big issues.

  22. And the nuclear industry has been pushing misinformation about wind and solar energy since that time as well

  23. Let's ignore the environmental groups who used lawfare and protests (occupying private property, stopping free movement), lies (the term misinformation is agitprop) to stop of stall the construction of nuclear plants.

  24. As someone that works for a solar company, there are two main reasons: we can't hire people fast enough to install it, and the speed of light limits travel.

  25. Power companies also don't like the idea of people not paying them for electricity or paying people back for energy they put on the grid. Florida Power and Light has sponsored several bills over the years to make adding solar to your home not worth it.

  26. Another reason is that roof top installations aren't very efficient labor-wise. Lots of work/trouble for a pretty small patch of panels.

  27. .... Who is going to install all of those solar panels, who is going to maintain all of those solar panels, and who is going to pay for all of it? Right now it would cost about 25k for me to put solar on my place and take about 20 years for it to have been worth it monetarily. I don't plan on living here for more than 5 years. I'm not doing that.

  28. Interestingly enough, oil companies have there hands in the pocket of all energy sources, even the “competition” if one goes down and the other goes up, they still profit from the shift in consumption.

  29. I see this tactic a lot. Anti-renewable forces know what buttons to push for well-meaning environmental activists. They'll push the idea that lithium mining is harmful for the environment and concern-troll about "dead" batteries in landfills or use words like "conflict materials" and child labor to get cobalt. But there's not a single mention of the massive damage going on right now with fossil fuels or the horrific human rights abuses that go on all the time by many oil exporting countries.

  30. The venn diagram of anti vaxxers, climate change denialists and flat earthers intersect quite a bit. And do t get me started on the religious end time folks who actively push for fossil fuels in order to end the world quicker.

  31. But why not use nuclear...? Or geothermal... no dead birds, no massive wind blade landfills. Newly designed nuclear facilities are fantastic, and new methods have been produced to minimize radioactive waste, or break it down in a manner which actually produces energy.

  32. I would think that more than misinformation it could be greed and opportunism, added to an excessive and unregulated lobby that favors the usual energy corporations.

  33. If you needed any evidence of just how sociopathic the people involved in fossil fuels are, it's the efforts they go to to prevent saving ourselves from extinction just so they can stuff more lucre in their pockets.

  34. Last November Maine voters went against a high-voltage line from Québec to Massachusetts. Line was mostly done, so now the state will pay the bill once the court battles are done. Obviously not many people mention that russian companies were part of the effort against the line. Hydro-Quebec has one of the largest chunk of renewal energy production in North America, they'll get that power to Boston, just not through the woods of Maine.

  35. The US direly needs some competition to your two parties in politics. Where I'm from, your country is often referred to as a failed democracy. You basically have an authoritarian regime but you get to choose one out of two authoritarian parties every 4 years. Most of your media channels also have strong ties to one of the parties which is also quite disturbing.

  36. Pretty much sums it up. The media portion has gone off the rails and really divided the two groups. Most people simply argue or regurgitate talking points heard from their BBC media outlet of choice. There’s little common ground it seems,and what used to be civilized debate has turned to name calling devoid of logic. If you want to see an argument that hits most logical fallacies in a short time frame you’ve come to the right place. Doesn’t matter which side.

  37. You could just change the headline to “Misinformation is damaging the world.” Right now the outright lies being spread are being used to destroy far more than only renewable energy. Though it is taking a huge hit from corporations that produce energy. I wish there was a way to mute the voices that lie exclusively to the people of the world.

  38. I work for an environmental consulting company and regularly produce maps and data regarding annual shadow flicker and noise levels from Wind Turbine project layouts. The amount of each of these varies depending on make & model of the turbine, but many of the ones I see in middle America have fairly minimal impacts. Turbines aren't usually placed within ~1000' of residences, and at that distance we're talking about 40dBA (a typical ceiling fan is about 60dBA). If people raise a big stink about it (and are NOT open to financial compensation) the layout just changes to avoid them.

  39. I’m a renewable energy engineer. My life is an endless stream of frustration. The amount of nonsense I hear from people in really powerful positions is disheartening to say the least. What really hurts is when average people start repeating the nonsense because they read it on Twitter or Reddit. I can’t even begin to tell you how much nonsense I’ve seen over it

  40. Yea like nuclear, fuck any environmentalist who killed nuclear… they did more to hurt the progress of renewables than most oil companies could have dreamed of

  41. As a solar developer, I'm the guy trying to answer those questions. I've got good answers for all of them (and many more of the same sort), so we usually get stuff built. But I can't imagine trying to deal with questions about a new nuclear facility. Not that there aren't answers for nuclear facilities. But as you say, the NIMBYs are too strong for that to happen in most places.

  42. It is people speaking about things that they have no idea about because they read a meme on social media. I have driven 3 different types of EVs over the last 9 years. But when I discuss it online and try and dispel some of the misinformation/disinformation I have people tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Well I have actual real world experience with them and you haven't likely even driven one so maybe I have a little better understanding of this then you. People really need to take a step back and realize when they don't have a clue. To me this is the Dunning Kruger effect on full display. People with a limited amount of knowledge think they know everything. People with the knowledge understand what they know and what they don't so are less apt to speak with authority on things like that. So wherever the information comes from it is spread but those people too stupid to understand they are actually ignorant on the subject and should not be spreading any information without understanding it first.

  43. We've spent like 70+ years making sure gas is as profitable as possible. Now all of a sudden they're like, "Are [trans kids, democrats, communists] making it so expensive? I don't see a relationship between my 1 hour commute, increased traffic and price"

  44. I want to get a sticker of myself to cover over those stickers, or maybe my neighbor. I could do the PM of Canada, maybe Australia. Ohh one of my grandma! Lol

  45. I like EVs and they have an insane amount of misinformation being spread about them. I can't count the number of times someone told me the battery in my car can only last two years because their friend's sister's dog groomer's uncle had an EV and the battery died in two years.

  46. The real green energy has been hijacked from nikola tesla. The corporate “renewable green” technology politicians push is not efficient and in some case have caused just as much harm to the environment and wild life.

  47. “Disinformation” is what they meant. Misinformation is from those who are misinformed (hence the root).

  48. misinformation huh ? more like debunking all these scammers and journalists who cant even do a basic physicx calculation of mass and energy, these days with all these tiktok n twitter n instagram brainless journos, they just repeat that given of whom pays them the most

  49. It's almost like when you account for distribution, energy storage, and disposal costs costs for wind and solar they don't look so good anymore.

  50. Do you have a citation for this? Whenever I see an independent full life cycle analysis of most renewables vs petroleum or coal, it still comes out way in favor of renewables. Just curious

  51. I'd argue they need tech; they'd be in the stone age without it. How else could they use social media to try and convince you that their imaginary friend and his imaginary enemy are real?

  52. Renewable and efficiency energy companies already employ more people in the US than all the fossil fuel industries do. For god’s sake, let us make progress!

  53. I agree, we need more federal subsidies given to rich private equity to build privately owned utilities that continue to rape the consumer. We need to eliminate good paying fossil fuel jobs because us liberals in resource poor states need to put our massive amounts of capital to work and won’t do it unless government guarantees us profit

  54. You could shorten the article title to "Misinformation is derailing everything", and still be pretty accurate.

  55. All this information is easily found. IPCC collects all the relevant data and kicks out a simple number per kWh to show this. So they look at all generation types. They then take the carbon/energy to build it, maintain it, burn fuel in it ( if it needs it) and then decommission at end of life. And then it spits out a simple cost of CO2 per kWh produced per generation type. Take a guess which one is lowest and I will tell you it isn't anything that is fossil fueled powered.

  56. "Mis-information" to progressives includes facts that run counter to their dogma. They can't allow people to think for themselves.

  57. What?? You mean the coordinated comments I get on Reddit when I say benign things about oil like “It fucking sucks” aren’t organic???

  58. how about the misinformation from the people that sell solar panels, or rather conveniently leaving out critical information in residential installation:

  59. The real misinformation is that these are somehow "good for the environment". They are not. They are just another way to export one's energy usage to other areas of the planet. They require a lot of energy and resources to produce and maintain. Don't fall for fossil fuel industry manipulation. NPR is a government mouthpiece for propaganda and this is just more of the same garbage.

  60. As someone who lives near one, I HATE THEM. They are enormous, ugly and I hate them. I wouldn’t buy property near them and I’m moving further away from the wind farm because I have no doubt they impact my sleep because I can never get a good night sleep at home, but when I go visit my family and friends away from them I can sleep just fine. Say whatever you like, but they have impacted my life for the worse. It all started when they expanded and moved closer to me 10 years ago

  61. I feel like we're at that point where we need to do this right away but people are too locked in their beliefs based the beliefs of what news station or false information website they visit weekly and nothing ends up getting done because ohhhh no the wind turbine it's bad for the environment or some other weird thing about the many other renewable energy sources.

  62. Since climate change is going to kill millions of people, I want to see criminal charges against anyone who sabotages renewable energy projects.

  63. Ok the article brings up a very small list of examples. It doesn't demonstrate whatsoever that this is a prominent widespread issue. It's just a few crazy people. I mean really, wind turbines cause cancer? That's one of the ridiculous examples they provide. As if there is any substantial number of people that actually believe that. And they show an anti wind sign as if this somehow demonstrates a big effort to detail renewable energy? The article doesn't demonstrate how many renewable energy projects were derailed, provide any evidence that there is a conspiracy going on, or that our renewable future is actually at threat. This is scraping the bottom of the barrel. From what can be seen in the article this is just a few unreasonable, crazy people and a few very small organizations. Not sure why everyone here is acting like this is a huge deal--theres misinformation about everything these days and people will say all sorts of crap

  64. The renewables energy industry has been spreading the most misinformation about wild energy claims and don’t get me started on the vast predatory practices of the home solar industry lol

  65. The GOP really needs to shut up. They are the problem with America. Spreading their false statements. Anyone who believes any of them are just as bad.

  66. I wish the US would invest as much into nuclear power as they do into wind and solar. Wind and solar are great, but they're not ready to replace burning of fossil fuels. Nuclear is. And it will reduce our carbon footprint while we solve the windmill bat problem, and figure out what to do about batteries.

  67. When half of Texas was freezing last year, I had friends just parroting the BS from our governor about Windmills. I pointed out, with links to graphs and reports, that the drop in capacity was far more than what it our peak capacity of wind is, that has lines were freezing shutting down gas plants, that water lines were freezing shutting down nukes, and that wind turbines operate in the freaking north sea I'm winter so obviously the problem is not winterizing our system (as well as other grid issues), not that we have too many turbines.

  68. Thank you republicans and Koch brothers for yet again halting American progress for corporate pockets and worthless sense of mind.

  69. The nuclear energy production is the most affected by disinformation what do you mean? This idea that renewables should not be used along side with nuclear is just false.

  70. I used to think this was pure greed but I've realized it's actually calculated. Money, right now, fucking immediately > everything including sustainability. I don't know if it's opportunity cost or how money now is worth more than money later. But that's what people have decided and there is this magical thinking that the market is going to solve this problem.

  71. Unless we are willing to go without power on non-windy and/or cloudy days, I don't consider solar or wind to be an actual solution. Nobody is going to convince me we can predict both will be reliable in the future with climate change. Same with hydro.

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