The Economist in defense of Qatar

  1. The only thing I sort of agree on its that the problem rewarding Qatar the rights to host the world cup and corruption is on FIFA. The blame for this is on FIFA.

  2. 10 of the 22-member Fifa executive committee which voted on the deal have since been banned for ethics violations while another four have either been indicted or convicted of criminal corruption

  3. Absolutely. Ultimately Qatar is the way it is and steadily modernising in its own time, but all of this could have been avoided if fifa wasn’t heartily corrupt from top to bottom

  4. Whilst I completely agree that it’s all on Fifa, I just can’t wrap my head around why Qatar would want to host a World Cup. They have no footballing pedigree, no leagues, no quality teams, no quality players and overall, no sporting heritage whatsoever. They had no infrastructure for sporting events either.

  5. You see, you have to see both sides of the argument. You might say something like "it's wrong to mistreat workers when the country holds enough wealth to make these workers affluent". However, this would make the aristocrats slightly less wealthy. Maybe not enough to be measurable in quality of life, but it would be fewer zeros on the nestegg. It's all too complicated to really take a stance against labour exploitation.

  6. Its a very conservative outlet. They actually try to argue their positions, which makes it more reputable than other scum media.

  7. They are more conservative, especially concerning the financial side of things which is their "specialty", but they are actually a pretty reputable magazine, their stuff is usually top quality and they allow for different opinions of authors to appear on its pages. I am by no means conservative, but I like to follow its articles/podcasts and learn a lot of things.

  8. I'm not surprised they're the kind of newspaper that will see an improved labour law and think that the problem is solved. Like writing on a piece of paper will improve conditions on the ground.

  9. Qatar has the highest GDP per capita in the world (they are rich af), they have no excuse for threatening their workers as poorly as they do. They can obviously afford a safer work environment

  10. The warhawks at the Economist have their swords sharpened for Russia and China so nobody is worse at the moment. As if people weren't criticizing the Russian world cup as well. It's just completely imagined hypocrisy, and such an outsider perspective. It's so easy to tell the writer here knows absolutely nothing about the sport and typed this up after a 5 min glance over what's going on. The fact that The Economist is ok publishing this is an embarrassment to them.

  11. It's so weak it's kinda almost funny tbh. It's like "yeah they've got an absolute monarch, but Caligula was worse!" was really the best mind combat they could muster.

  12. Man, that's amazing. 'Qatar isn't as bad as 1970s South American juntas (who we also supported at the time)'.

  13. The only legitimate criticism against Qatar-bashing was Western hypocrisy that only noticed human right abuses when it's done in brown countries.

  14. Criticizing a leader’s policies =/= endorsing a coup against them. All the Economist did was rightfully criticize Allende’s policies which ended up making his people poorer and supported authoritarian regimes.

  15. The Economist just loves being positive and wholesome. Just check out it's other normal articles defending controversial states like "For the Right, 1939"!

  16. If we count death as mistreatment then 20,000 migrants have been mistreated. But obviously without knowing what the dead workers were earning we can’t know if they were mistreated or not. Because those life changing paychecks…

  17. This is true. It doesn’t justify mistreatment but people from my home country go there in droves for a better life, because the alternative is to suffer at home.

  18. The Economist is right here; if conditions for migrant workers were so bad, they would not keep going to Qatar. Qatar's bad working conditions are heavily publicized, so clearly the trip is worth it for the workers.

  19. I legitimately thought that there would be a "just kidding, Qatar sucks" at the end of this article to point out that it was, indeed, all satire...

  20. Russia and Qatar were both awarded on the same day and both were joke decisions. Still Russia at the time of award was vehemently criticised for its press treatment and treatment of LGBT+ people, but it is at least a country capable of hosting a tournament in summer that had multiple cities, stadiums, hotels, and football culture. In 2012 when they were awarded the war in Ukraine was a decade away.

  21. You're right except for the war in Ukraine being a decade away, the Russians invaded the Donbass region in 2014, so only 2 years after the bid was announced and a full 4 years before the world cup happened. There was plenty of opportunity to take away the world cup from them as punishment, but it wasn't even considered by the powers that be at FIFA.

  22. I get this article but it's missing the point that Russia and Brazil (guessing probably China with the Olympics but don't know enough about it), probably even South Africa in 2010 deserved to host for "footballing" reasons. Every host pretty much in history has already had established leagues, stadia etc plus most (if not all) in the era of budget flights and mass away followings have had sufficient tourism infrastructure and cultural compatibility to make it an enjoyable experience. Qatar has none of that.

  23. Qatar 2022 and USA/Canada in 2026 are examples of countries with almost no football culture being given the most prestigious footballing event ever when they don’t have the infrastructure or care to support it.

  24. I can see a kind of point there, although it’s not being made very well. It is true that most of us in the Western European “old football” countries are not truly, really mad about the migrant workers (a situation which didn’t start with the World Cup and is not limited to Qatar), or about human rights, LGBT rights etc (ditto).

  25. Perfect comment. You’ve got to the root of what people are really upset about (with plenty of justification, to be fair) rather than what they say they’re upset about.

  26. Most of my relatives and friends work as a migrant in Qatar. Both as a skilled professional and in manual labour. Their Familie’s lives have completely changed from borderline poverty in India to a stable upper middle class comfort. I haven’t heard of anyone or contacts of anyone going through cruelty. I think the comparison to slavery and ill treatment are overblown by the western media. If not for the Middle East, most of my extended family would be in poverty.

  27. The stories I've heard regarding life in the Middle East from my Indian social circles are the same. Lot of money in these countries and working standards are all better than what we find in India. No cruelty, no passport confiscation, no slavery.

  28. How are you downvoted? It's amazing how absolutely clueless these folk are. They'd rather that these people live in generational poverty earning a pittance of the wages whilst offering zero actual help to them. It's downright pathetic honestly.

  29. Thank you for providing insight on the other side. I live in the GCC and, although I'm not from here and I HAVE seen racism and mistreatment, I've also spoken to many workers who have been able to buy land in their home countries and send their kids to good schools.

  30. Your individual experience may be different but personal experiences do not counter the widespread research that has been done by organizations or the widespread investigations that have been done by journalists.

  31. Same, most of my friends(although arabs) who went to work there and the US/Canada, changed their lives and their families for the better, cant say the same for the ones in Europe sadly.

  32. Exactly. Yt mf’s having the cheek to use our people to virtue signal when they’re going to these countries for a better life cos the alternative is worse.

  33. I think the article has a great point but it’s not quite pronounced accurately. It is true that unless we want the World Cup to rotate between Nordic countries, we probably have to give hosting rights to nations that enforce less than ideal rules on their populace. That’s just the way the world is.

  34. Damn they’ve been on PR damage control like crazy because of this whole thing… makes me not want to watch even more

  35. I stopped thinking the Economist was anything other than a piece of shit rag when it ran an article blaming the EU for the state of Cyberpunk on launch.

  36. This is the worst case of whataboutism I have ever seen. What in the flying fuck was going through their minds when the editor said yes to this. Awful argument feels like it was constructed by a child

  37. They’re saying “straight sex is also illegal unless married” like this is a good thing! The shit they’re comparing Qatar culture and law to, is just weird here. “The emirate is more open to migrant labour than America” - WTF!!?? So, therefore they’re entitled to treat them like shit, and allow them to die in their thousands due to almost biblical-slavery conditions. Unbelievable article. “Although these migrants are sometimes mistreated…” “gay sex is illegal, it is true….” “There are claims that Qatar bribed its way to World Cup Glory. That may be true…” “the hosts’ claim that the event will be carbon-neutral is dubious…” This article states all of these things and then still carries on defending the decision. Unbelievable.

  38. What a piece of shit! Their intention is not defend Qatar but attack western enemies, more like a propaganda than anything else.

  39. in the last years that's been the only reason for the Economists existence. the propaganda arm of warmongering westerners

  40. What do y'all consider "football traditions"? Cause I seen this thrown around a lot for pretty much any country outside of Europe and South America, including the USA, Qatar, Senegal, and Japan

  41. As both a critic of Qatar for its human rights abuses, and a vocal supporter of Putin, the CCP and the historical Perón regime, this article has really made me change my mind.

  42. Fucking economist blatantly admitting they get nice kickbacks from Qatar. I'm sure they'd support Hitler cause he was a vegetarian and liked dogs and in any case all world leaders do bad things so he's policies are perfectly acceptable. Fucking cunts

  43. Whoever had the nerve to write this propaganda puff piece should attach their name to it, spineless loser that they are.

  44. It may not follow your western view of progress, but actually Arstotzka is liberalising in its own way. Frankly I think you’re just racist against everyday Arstotzkans who want to see football brought to them

  45. The idea that other hosts have had similar issues is not a valid argument. Some issues have been present at other host countries, but that was then and this is now. Comparing the Qatar government of the present with the Argentina government of the 70s is stretching beyond belief.

  46. Qatar is legally allowed to treat women as lesser than men and thats all you need to know about that place.

  47. Who ever wrote this is probably bought by Qatar , or is a contrarian who refuses to accept what mainstream media are rightly saying about this World Cup

  48. I like how at the end he says it is the “perfect” place to host the world cup. even if you want to disregard all the horrible things about qatar the way this article did, it just doesn’t make much sense to host the world cup in a extremely small, extremely hot country in the middle of the desert. If you look at all other world cups they are either hosted in major nations or major footballing nations, qatar is neither of these things. You can at least write off China as trying to foster the growth of football in the worlds most populous country, but qatar is not really populous enough to make that excuse; if you care about fostering growth in qatar, why not Jamaica or Montenegro, countries of similar size. And as much as Russia sucks, it is quite a big footballing nation, maybe not these days in terms of the national team, but they have quite a few major clubs that regularly compete in europe. Additionally the soviet union was a good team and they produced one of the best goalkeepers ever. If you want to ignore the human rights violations and obvious climate problems, there’s not a real reason for hosting it there, it’s neither a major footballing nation that has the infrastructure and will greatly appreciate a world cup nor a large nation that could start to become footballing nation due to the world cup being held there. If you wanna hold the cup in a Muslim nation, why not Morocco, Algeria or Egypt, much larger nations and much bigger footballing nations. Of course they have their problems but they’re much better that qatar.

  49. There were massive protests of Russia hosting the event. Mind you Russia had state sponsored doping projects that banned them from Olympics, everyone knew Russia hosting was down to corruption. There were MAJOR talks about boycotting China. Qatar may not be worse than than them but it’s also a low bar not to set a global event in countries that blatantly disregard basic moral and principles. For the record no one wants to boycott Qatar cause homosexuality or fornication is illegal (it doesn’t help but not the main reason), it’s because hundreds of South East asian worked in slave conditions and many died.

  50. It's not a bad read. FIFA definitely shit the bed on this one. Feels like the article is simply trying to say it could have been a whole lot worse. Pointing out things like there are less tolerant countries. But still should it have gone to Qatar:no could it have gone to worse:yes. But surely everybody knows those already. Simply pointing out it could have been worse doesn't really change the fact Qatar was a bad choice and has killed a lot of the fun and sportsmanship of the world cup.

  51. I realized it was an ad like 2 paragraphs in. The language used is so amateurish there's no way an actual Economist columnist wrote it.

  52. ...because all of the articles by The Economist are anonymous (except for Special Reports and guest writers). As they explain it, 'The main reason for anonymity, however, is a belief that what is written is more important than who writes it' and it allows the magazine to have a 'collective voice'. Considering the day and age we're in (where people will stalk a journalist's social media for one 'incorrect' or 'problematic' post so they can discredit anything that person ever writes), I think it's quite a noble idea.

  53. As Musa said, part of the criticism of Qatar, is the realization that there wasn't enough push back on Russia. Also, other countries are also bad is not a great defense. I think countries like Tunisia,Morocco, Egypt are perfectly acceptable places to host the cup as Muslim majority countries. Yes some of the same issues would exist in terms of gay people for example, but atleast you have strong footballing traditions there and wouldn't have to switch the calender completely. The issue with Qatar is, there is no real logical reason for them to host it honestly. Too small, not a particularly footballing country, extreme weather. Then you add in the unsavory issues like the migrant worker treatment, LGBT unfriendliness, and very probable bribery and then it's like how the fuck did this happen(yes i already answered this question in the unsavory section)?

  54. No Arab country can host a World Cup in the summer. Morocco at a stretch but you will still have many hot days. Egypt is absolutely impossible. The too small and not a particularly footballing country is not a valid reason in my opinion. Too Small is a good thing as you can watch as many matches as possible without switching hotels or flying to other cities, and it is a footballing country no matter how many people say it isn't. It's the most popular and only sport the Qataris play.

  55. But real people did push back on the Russian world cup. There was significant protests and social commentary about it at the time. It was the mainstream media that decided it was a non-issue for whatever reason.

  56. Oil and gas are the only resources qatar has access to. What are they supposed to do exactly, not sell it and live in extreme poverty?

  57. Having lived in Qatar and witnessed the migrant worker camps and seen the conditions they live in this article is straight bullshit. They don't welcome migrants because they want to out of some sense of altruism. They bring them in because there are ~ 313k Qatari citizens who think that manual labor and other tasks are beneath them. The racism is 1950s-level blatant. E.g. my family and I were on a flight back from vacation in Sri Lanka. We were waiting in line with 100s of Sri Lankan migrant workers. A custom official comes up to us and says you don't need to wait in that line with them. We skipped the line because we were white Westerners. There are frequent abuses like stolen passports and wage theft. What little protections there are like no outdoor work if the temperature is above 110 degrees, so when the temperature goes above that the official temperature at work sites reads 109. The worst of all is the blood money. In Arab cultures, they do not have insurance the way we do in the West. Instead if you injure of kill someone and are found at fault you need to pay the victim's family. The structure of the payouts is as follows: male Qatari > female Qatari > white westerners > middle-class professionals from Africa of Asia (business owners) > ... > Livestock > Nepalese & Sri Lankan males. They literally place less value on human life than on livestock. That is how little they value these people.

  58. Yes, Russia also bad. That's why we're about as close to at war with them as we can possibly be without officially being in open full scale war.

  59. the "sometimes" in the "these migrants are mistreated" like they hadnt thousand of workers killed compared to South Africa, Brazil and Russia most recently, the rest of this bullshit is whataboutism at its finest, the 6th paragraph is just laughable

  60. For those not familiar with it, The Economist loves to print editorials with provocative titles.

  61. I dont hate the ppl of Qatar, I have good friends from around there. But they went out of their way to call homosexuals 'mentally ill' , I have many gay friends and am Bisexual myself and there is no defense against that statement. There is a lot of anti-muslim racism out there, ofc, and all of that is horrible, but I wont defend a state that calls me and my friends mentally ill

  62. I actually completely agree with you. And this is probably the first time I've said that in this sub lmao. Can't believe that your comment is downvoted when all the misinformation is upvoted though. Reddit needs to do better.

  63. ah yes the Economist, flagship publication of the neo liberal establishment. of course they think Qatar is okay, these people sold their souls a long time ago. All they care about now is how soon they can encourage the West to wage war on Russia and China

  64. Fuck off, Economist. Everytime someone in says they’re going to Qatar to be a domestic worker and leaving all their kids behind because they’re desperate for money we always know it will be years before they come home. The women are warned that more often than not there is a high possibility of being raped, and for men and women their passports will be confiscated, they may be subjected to physical abuse, and there will be no recourse because no one cares about their suffering. To leave Qatar my countrymen and women need an exit permit from their employers, and their wages can be withheld at any time.

  65. If it had been a joint bid between say Qatar, Bahrain, and the UAE I think the bid would have made a lot more sense. It could have showcased Doha, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Manama etc and actually had the stadiums, accomodation and infrastructure to cope with a major tournament. Instead the World Cup has become part of the ongoing Gulf state dick waving contest and a tiny state with no infrastructure has been allowed to go it alone by recruiting an army of migrant workers to build ghost stadium's and towns in the desert, most of which will be demolished within a year.

  66. Wow. So many counter-arguments pushed as facts, so many false comparisons. "Ignore the fundamentals and a decent rebuttal can be made" seems to be the prompt here, what a joke. When your entire article is based upon comparisons to other awful countries and pushback to the common narrative you know you are slinging shit. They must have been paid a packet to take up a spread with this nonsense.

  67. Of course, fun cannot be obtained without sex and booze, ironic how you use words like ad infinitum and ´in extremis' while your take is so ignorant and reflects so much narrownesses in how you define fun norms

  68. Glad i cancelled my subscription years ago. After reading them for a while you realize they have no real integrity in their defense of liberalism and will just shill for or against whoever has the most money. In this case Qatar.

  69. No clear proof has been made public about corruption? What asshat wrote this article, how about the fact that the majority of the people that voted for Qatar have been banned from football or even convicted for bribery because of investigations into that particular vote. Is that not enough evidence? Also no mention of the fact that Qatar is a tiny country without a rich football history, the team has never even qualified for a World Cup before and now they can host? I’d rather have Morocco for example if you want to have a World Cup in the Muslim world.

  70. I think it's a good article, there is way more criticism of Qatar than the other competitions that have recently happened, which is the point I think the article is trying to get at.

  71. Saying that Qatar is a worthier venue to host the World Cup than China simply because there is slightly more media freedom in Qatar is an insult to both China and anyone else with a brain.

  72. Such articles (and comments from Infantino) are necessary simply because the criticism against Qatar has now become overwhelming.

  73. Truth is the Middle East has been isolated from the rest of the world for years. It’s impossible to expect them to have the same values as the West has, even more so when these same values are disputed in some countries still. If we want to see change in these countries I believe it’s better to welcome them to the world and start from there, rather than blocking them off.

  74. None of this shit even matters. Qatar don’t deserve any defense, given what they did. Idgaf if they instituted somewhat fair elections in their country. They bought this World Cup to try to cultivate a good image, why the fuck are so many people scrambling to help them???

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