Thoughts on the starter's final evolutions?

  1. It is based on Carnival festivals held in Spain, Italy, Brazil, And dozens of other countries. The dancers literally dress up as birds with giant tails.

  2. I think I figured out a main reason why people often don’t like the modern starters, besides the usual other reasons. They are way too catered to a specific audience. The starters back then were more generic and universally liked. It’s hard to meet someone who doesn’t like fire breathing dragons, a large, menacingly cool-looking honey badger with fire on its neck, or simply a really slick looking grassy lizard. As creative and unique the modern starters are, they have VERY particular designs that hide loads of inspiration, as if the designers primarily focused on that. A football playing, anthropomorphic, white rabbit is extremely specific. A grassy, masquerade-masked, anthropomorphic magician lynx is also extremely specific. If you don’t like cats, magicians, anthros, etc. then there is a big chance you won’t like Meowscarada. The designers seem to value inspiration and themes more than just making sure the design looks like a really cool battle monster. Isn’t to say they can’t be both, but it just seems more of a priority to them. I happen to like carnival themes, cats, and crocodiles, so I quite like Meowscarada and Skeledirge. Though Quaquaval… I really wish the designers focused more on making a “cool looking monster” here… Or a bird in this case.

  3. Yeah, when you look at the final evolutions of say, the Hoenn or Johto starters compared recent gens, the contrast is like night and day.

  4. I think this is the best answer for this thread, on earlier generations they just go for cool factor so it's easy to like but when they need to put deeper meaning it but hard to design, so i agreed with this answer and need more vote

  5. The designs are overly specific but there are too many themes included in the designs. Usually Pokemon have two themes mixed together as a basis for their design, and then the Pokemons name is based on it as well.

  6. I think you are right with their approach. The thing is- i wish they would focus on universal appeal for the staters because we all have to choose one. Thats the time to go for universal appeal!! Its cool to have specific inspirations for individual regular pokemon though. Im a weirdo who likes trubbish and garbador (LOVED gigantamax garbador witn the cruise ship in it) but it would be a mistake to make trubbish a starter.

  7. Yeah, I hate the themes. I want them to look like battle monsters, either cute, cool, scary, etc. It's the themes and weird stereotypes to fit the themes. I didn't even like the duck's unevolved form due to the personality and hair. I loved the crocodile personality in the beginning, but I see a clown theme with the colors for his fully evolved form so I never wanted him. I semi like magicians and thieves so went for the cat, but to be honest I may like the theme but I don't like the theme pasted onto my Pokemon, so I'd rather it just looked more like a cute cat or a cool looking cat of prey, rather the weird magician thing.

  8. Its not just themes, they are forcing a specific personality on them, you can have a timid charizard or a prideful charizard or an aggressive charizard, you cant have different personalities on any of the gen 8 or 9 starters because its baked in to their designs

  9. I’m just tired of quadrupeds evolving into bipeds. This is the third generation in a row where I have dropped my starter from my team before even beating the gyms

  10. I’m just speculating rn, but I think this direction of “very specific Pokémon designs” are a product of James Turner. While he has made some amazing Pokémon in the past, a lot of these specific designs seem to have happened once he had a larger role in GF.

  11. I mean, these starters are so human looking that I'm not sure who would show up if Pokemon was real and they were in these roles. Would it be the UN or PETA?

  12. Idk man I’m just tired of the cool four legged starters turning into dumb two legged starters. Imagine if venusaur was standing up - that shit would be dumb as fuck

  13. I feel like Quaquaval struck a good balance of human and anthropomorphic, at least knowing the framework Gamefreak was going for. Given that we have Flamigo and whatever Flittle evolves into, they could do a better Peacock design but this doesn't feel quite as jarring to me as say another Blaziken design

  14. What I don’t like about it is it really pigeon-holes their possible personalities. Like how shy and adorable could a ghost archer be, how tough and gruff could a feminine pop singer be, how clever and funny could a muscular luchador be? It just feels like they either have to have a concrete personality, or one that clashes with their genetics

  15. You hit the nail on the head. The first 4 gens have starters that where and still are incredibly popular. Hell Charizard is the most popular starter in the series and it has none of the hallmarks of the current starter design. It's just a big orange dragon. It's not a wrestler, it's not a singer, it's not a football player. It's just a dragon. Game Freak need to fire the furry they currently have doing their starter designs and hire someone who will at least follow the trend of the gen 1-4 starters.

  16. I was a bit disappointed, Skeledirge is the only one that looks like an actual beast. Not a fan of humanoid looking starters. Gimme Pokémon that look like they are actual creatures that live in the wild, not people dressed up like animals lol.

  17. I choose Sprigatito. Meowscarada is an amazing mix of cute and cool and I love the magician/phantom thief theme (I choose a female one to fit the feminine aesthetic).

  18. Skeledirge is the best by default just cause he’s more animalistic, but I’m still not crazy about him. A bit overdesigned imo and I don’t think he’s a good evolution for Fuecoco, but he’s not awful. I don’t like the other two at all. They keep up the animal + job pattern that I’m not fond of. But if other people like them, that’s fine.

  19. Kind of disappointed because I thought their pre-evolved forms were so cute. Reading about their possible inspirations makes everything make more sense, but I’m still not crazy for any of them.

  20. I can’t not see the clown hair with skeledirges fire. I was team Fuecoco all the way since the announcement, but ended up going Sprigigato

  21. My sister said skeledirge looks like a clown and now I can't unsee it...so because I'm not a fan of clowns I'm disappointed

  22. So do Oshawott, Popplio, and Rowlet/Dartrix. The problem is GF started using pure white in their starter color palettes, a very unnatural color to find out in the wild on animals The only time we see it is when humans wear makeup, ie clowns.

  23. Fuecoco was the last one I thought about picking until I saw the starter evos, Weed cat evo bipedal was a self fulfilling prophecy, Quax was my go to choice, now it's my absolute last, I'll actually probably never use it. Not bashing anyone who likes Quax just definitely went from Wow this is great to What the fuck for me very fast

  24. I want to and if the fire didnt make it look like krusty the clown i would like it. I cant unsee a clown! And i wish it kept its fire sombrero

  25. Dissapointed by all of them. It’s hard to describe but they look like fan art; you know how fan art can be good but still for some reason never quite feels like a real Nintendo pokemon? That’s how I felt. If I have to choose rn I’d say sprigatitos final form is my preferred one.

  26. They're just so over designed. Skeledirge just needed less going on, Stick with the red for most of his body, Pick one accent color, and take away the flames. Hard not to compare him to Feraligatr and see how simpler designed he was while being much cooler. I didn't like Meowscarada much at first but it is probably the best due to it just being a cat in a mask without so many moving pieces and conflicting colors.

  27. A lot of the fan art predictions I've seen for their third evolutions are WAY better than the actual ones

  28. Skeledirge looks a lot better in game then screen shots and is pretty cool, Meowscarada is really cute and sleek if you don't mind the more anthro designs, Quaquaval has the worst design for me as I think it's a lil over designed although the dancer motif is interesting.

  29. I do think the overdesigned thing is supposed to be on purpose, considering the peacock inspiration. If any anomal is overdesigned in real life, it's the peacock. Not saying you have to like it, of course, but I do think it was intentional in that regard

  30. I like them all but Skeledirge is my favorite and is a literal powerhouse. It has a great movepool and is pretty tanky also. Definitely wasn't expecting it.

  31. It’s coverage blows the other 2 out of the water frankly. Even if there’s no good type matchups a few Torch Songs can sweep a whole team. I could not believe that move exists tbh, 80 power spec STAB with a spec attack boost?

  32. Quaquaval is not my cup of tea, but meowscarada and skeledirge are amazing. I remember when I was scared sprigatito would stand up lol

  33. skeledirge and Meowscarada are amazing looking to me and they really fit some of my favorite playstyles. fuck Quaquaval's design though. it is just another fursuiter style pokemon. i really hate that i like it in battle too cuz i just don't want to look at it.

  34. I knew it would be bird themed thanks to Quaxly but the peacock final form was totally unexpected and really fits the flamenco dancer idea quite well, which was hilarious since that's the style of guitar I play the most.

  35. When I saw the leaks of all the final evos I thought skeledirge looked HORRIBLE, and the other two were alright, I still ended up choosing fuecoco since I always pick the fire starter on my first play through. I was pleasantly surprised seeing him in game, I think he looks pretty cool. Not to mention he hard carrys most of the gyms. After seeing all three in game, my opinion completely did a 180. Skeledirge looks awesome and the other two to me are meh.

  36. Meowscarada: I'm not a big fan of biped and anthro designs but Meowscarada has grown on me a lot. I think the clothes motif looks better on this than it did on Cinderace because it blends better with the overall body, and it just looks more natural to me.Really like its personality and design inspiration too, definitely a favorite in my book despite the tropes.

  37. I think it's cute and cool that all of them are based on entertainers and that they're all weak to each other in the opposite order. xD

  38. I love Sprigatito's final because I love the masked magician trope. I love Quaxly's final because I always thought those over the top costumes were fun. Fuecoco's final is the only one I'm more iffy on. It looks cool, but I feel like they could have done the skeleton motif better. I feel like there is too much white on his face.

  39. I am super annoyed that 2 of them needed to be anthropomorphic again. A freakin leaf tiger would have been cool

  40. I think all the Gen 9 final evol are better designed than Gen 8. You can see the inspirations from Spanish culture, tho I wish Meowscarada would continue to look cooler from its 2nd evol. Gen 8 has a soccer player, an agent and a gorilla that apparently carries a drum set around.

  41. Been Team Sprigatito from the start and I'm happy to say I was not disappointed by Meowscarada. I think it's so awesome and elegant looking.

  42. Skeledirge only, 100%. I am rejecting the other 2 humanoid ones. Evolved and sent to the last pc box in the farthest bottom right corner to be forgotten about.

  43. Meowscarada and Skeledirge look great. While Meowscarada looks slightly anthropomorphic it still has a lot of cat-like features. I think it looks more like a werecat magician. As for Skeledirge it is a crocodile which makes it automatically a clearly dangerous design. Plus it is massively chunky of a design making it look like an absolute unit.

  44. I absolutely love Meowscarada. I love the design how shes like a stage magician with a mask, and that floating flower thing she has is an amazing touch.

  45. Skeledirge is my least favorite but damn I love everything about Meowscarda I only wish it had a bit more detail on it but i love the speedy glass cannon who always crits

  46. For me from the sword and shield and this game both the water starter get short stick, they are not bad design just the other two is better for me

  47. I like the grass and fire ones, the water looks a bit weird imo. Performance wise their special attacks and hidden abilities and stat spread and typing is very nice

  48. Not complaining since I like the designs. I know a lot of people were disappointed that Sprigatito went bipedial but I think the design is fairly cool with the magician theming.

  49. My friend showed me a leaked picture of quaxlys evolution before the games came out and my initial thoughts were that it was the love child of a Kommo-o and revali from breath of the wild. I don't like to think about it.

  50. So so sick of the furbait evos, just gimme 3 choices that actually look like creatures, not like someones fursuit.

  51. My opinions on them basically follow the same pattern as their unevolved forms: I LOVE Sprigatito and Meowscarada (tying with Fennekin and Delphox as my favourite starters and starter evos), don’t really care about Fuecoco and hate Skeledirge and I just think Quaxly and Quaquaval are fabulous. Also it’s really satisfying to say Quaquaval. Same for Meowscarada and I guess also Skeledirge. Also Espathra. That’s fun to say too

  52. I’m so angry about Meowscarada. Weed Cat was a clear favorite originally but they can’t help but go the furry bait route. And I’m a damn furry. I love me some Gardevoir, Lopunny, and Delphox. But would it kill them to give us some more animalistic Pokémon? Hence why Skeledirge is clearly best starter this Gen.

  53. Was mixed at first. But after seeing them in game and using them, I think they are high tier. Best starter gen since gen 4. All three are pretty great imo and Skeledirge is a new all time favorite with meowscarada not far behind.

  54. You know how in the gen 1 anime there were wild charizards, wild venosaurs, and wild blastoise, and it made sense because they were all just big animals.

  55. I initially liked Quaxly the least but started with him anyway because I was doing a play through with friends where we all chose different starters. Turns out I like Quaquaval best! His animations really sell it for me, not only is he fabulous- he knows it. I would have loved a more pirate-esque evolution but Quaquaval just works.

  56. The fire on Skeledirge is a bit chunky and I'm not sure what they were going for with it, and his skin textures are a bit weak too but his overall anatomy and proportions are really well done and his sound design is incredibly unique. The best starter we've had in a long time.

  57. I’m glad someone mentioned Skeledirge’s sound design. The roar he makes when he comes out is awesome, even in a raid with 3 other cries you immediately know he’s there. I wasn’t a big fan of any starters when I first saw their finals but Skele grew on me real fast.

  58. I wish the cat wasn't bipedal, but overall, all three are pretty good and the theming is fun. There aren't any real weaknesses like Inteleon from Gen VIII or everyone from Gen VI.

  59. Quaquaval is great and one of my favorite water pokemon in the game now. I also like Skeledirge a lot. Meowscarada is okay, I don't hate it but it's a bit boring to me.

  60. Meowscarada is as top tier as I expected it to be. Skeledirge was as meh as fuecoco was. Quaquaval was a bit of a let down, was hoping for a gruff conquistador/sailor

  61. The cat stood up and I'm not happy about it. That being said it's probably the best 4 leg that turns human like starter we gotten so that's a huge plus (though grass dark is terrible type combo).

  62. I was not in love with Skeledirge's head/face when the leaks first hit, but now that I have him running around in game with his silly trumpet roar, I love him.

  63. Skeledirge is my favorite final evolution, it kinda reminds me of the Skullcrawlers from "Kong: Skull Island," and I love it. My only complaints are that design-wise, I wish the head was more skeletal(to be even more reminiscent of a Skullcrawler) and stat-wise, that as a crocodilian, it should be much faster.

  64. I’m not as hung up on the bipedal thing, I don’t think that’s an issue cause stuff like Blastoise and Charizard are bipedal and cool. But they need to stop making them have specific careers. They need to just be mass appeal cool monsters instead of hyper specific stuff like a water spy lizard.

  65. Skeledirge is objectively a horrible design. Which sucks because all the starters are great and Fuecoco was my choice because it was the most adorable. But Skeledirge looks nothing like Fuecoco except for being a red crocodile. Fuecoco is round and cute, so why does Skeledirge get so angular? It makes no sense. If it was part steel I'd get it, but it's not. And it's even worse since it's part ghost, but nothing about the design gives ghost.

  66. The fire and the grass made out like bandits but the water is probably the worst design in the entire series.

  67. Quaqavel seriously resembles Stolas from Helluva Boss. I love that Skeledirge is nonhumanoid. As for Sprigatito’s evolution, I just wish it had stayed quadrupedal.

  68. Still not a fan of Sprigatito's evolution line; I seriously wish they kept it quadrupedal. But other than that I really like Fuecoco's (except Skeledirge's fire...hair...tuft things look kind of weird) and Quaxly's really grew on me! Quaquaval reminds me of Pavé from Animal Crossing haha

  69. The fire starter isn't good enough for me. Probably because the white part of it make it look goofy than awesome. The other 2 are cool.

  70. While my special grass lad isn’t the sick flower power jaguar I was hoping for, he still won me over. A lot of his moves, even before he reaches is final evo are based on trickery and messing with your opponent. Best example being U-turn. And then there’s Flower Trick which has to be the funniest Pokémon move I’ve ever seen next to Baxcaliber’s Glaive. As for how it looks, I’ll admit, now that I’ve seen it up close, I don’t hate it as much as I thought I would. To be fair, the pokedex picture from the leak was very unflattering. But come on, should we judge someone for their ugly high school yearbook photos? Meowscarada is still absolutely based and I will enjoy dropping bouquets of C4 infused roses on my opponents for a long time to come.

  71. Not really a fan of any if them . Would have like a bipedal version of the fire croc. The second evol of the cat is the best our of all them.

  72. Sure we can all talk about final evolutions. But can I just shout out Floragatto being the 1st time where personally I think the middle evolution was the best for a starter.

  73. Grass is Furry Bait, Fire is the Best since DPP, And water is... uhh... I don't want to afind anyone... IT IS THE WORST FINAL STAGE EVER.

  74. When I saw some leaked images, I wasn’t sure how I’d feel about Quaquaval, but I love my little drag queen

  75. They’re all pretty great, probably my favorite set of starter evos since Sinnoh, but IMO Quaquaval > Meowscarada > Skeledirge.

  76. Design wise not a lot jumps out to me. As a pokemon to use I like their signature moves and typings a lot.

  77. I started with Sprigatito and am on my first playthrough, it's level 45 and fully evolved. Honestly? I'm very let down, but moreso in the game play department than the design. At least I think it could be called the game play...

  78. I thought furcoco was the only passable one. Before i saw the evolutions i was tied between them and the duck but after seeing tight jeans mcduck and emo weed cat imma stick with fire gator for now but honestly they may not stay in the final team, who knows.

  79. I had very low expectations and was pleasantly surprised. Sure, they still lean heavy into their inspirations as all designs since Gen 6 have, but they're just generic enough that they're a little more believable as creatures that could exist in the wild.

  80. I got my starter an Everstone at the school city and he's still a cute little base pokémon, because frankly, all three evolution lines are ugly to me.

  81. I don't know what it is but I didn't like any of them really I LOVED all the first stages but they all grew into designs that felt so odd to me. Even with a lot of the pokemon of this generation I feel like their first stages REALLY hit the mark and then they evolve and I'm like.. oh, thats neat I guess.

  82. So, at first I didn’t like Quaquaval but after being with him for so long, I love him! I think he’s hilarious from the way he dances to the way he runs when he’s out of his pokeball, and he fits so well on the team because my whole team is pretty goofy looking and I love it.

  83. Had to go for Meowscarada because of Grass/Dark type, first non legendary rep (Zarude) since Shiftry and Cacturne in gen 3 IIRC, love the design though, and fits my playstyle. Skeledirge looks the coolest, and I love Quaquaval's flamboyance.

  84. Honestly I love them all, Quaquaval is probably my favorite but I do like the other two. I do notice some missed design opportunities though:

  85. I was team Quaxly from the start and its still my favorite. Its perfect and fabulous, peak bird. I didn't like the other two and uh...didn't like their finals either....

  86. No, they were not 🤷🏻‍♂️ but I’m sure I’ll get hate for saying but I just don’t care anymore 😂

  87. Elvis duck is just too much, but its signature move is cool. The lizard is my fav from the fire nation since litten. Adore the grass cat, and when that HA drops, with that move pool, hot damn get ready for a new love/hate relationship if ur into competitive battles.

  88. I like em tbh. Massive improvement over last gen. Still disappointed they didn't go the Zorro route with Sprigatto (could've been nice with HA being Sharpness... STAB Sharpness Leaf Blade...) but it's grown in me.

  89. People are going to hate me, but out of the three, Sprigatito’s my favorite, sure I’m bummed they turned into a freak of nature humanoid fursuit, but I really like the magician theme going on. Quaxly’s is pretty bad, I’m annoyed that most every water start since Greninja has just been a dark and edgy lanky boy, (Popplio is an exception but their design is just as bad). Fuecoco’s is ok, nothing amazing. But I’m picking Fuecoco as my starter because of his doofus looking face.

  90. Skelledirge is the best looking by a country mile and I'm not even that hot on Skelledirge, The other two I just don't like. As others have said, this whole "starters having a job thing" just isn't working out IMHO.

  91. It’s funny as a gay point of view is different from the straights. Quaquaval is very flamboyant which was not the direction I thought they were going to go with. I thought they would have went with a Jojo bizarre adventure type but instead we got like a water version of Yuri on ice. I’m like bitch you better work! I can see straight men hating this evolution which is sad but you can’t say that this Pokémon isn’t 🏕️ as hell.

  92. All the designs in general have been pretty bad the last couple gens. Even gen 5 got a lot of hate but those eventually grew on the community, myself included. Gen 7 was a mix bag, but 8 and 9 are almost all bad across the board for me. A lot of it in the new art style, but one of the big things I've noticed is that pokemon don't feel like animals anymore. They are basically the animals of the pokemon world, but may of the newer designs feel very disconnected from real life plants and animals. I feel like everyone wanting starters like Incinaroar and Meowscarna(spelling?) To stay quadrapeds is kind of the a good indicator of this. Sure some none animal pokemon are great, but a lot of the designs seem more cartoony and detached from reality than earlier generations, or just lack the details on their designs. The change is art style, the lack of detail, increaded cartooniness, and overall detachment from realistic themes makes it really hard to like many newer designs. Alot of fan games using fakemon have much better designs imo nowadays, and one I played awhile back (pokemon zenoverse) has a few absolutely amazing designs (not all of them mind you, but some are truely exceptional) that I wish were real so much that it's almost depressing they arnt cannon.

  93. They're all fairly decent. I'm a tad disappointed at another fire/ghost starter, and I didn't want to go Fuecoco because I already planned on having Ceruledge. I never ended up evolving my Quaxly, because all of the new pokemon interested me more. And honestly, this has been the first time I've not used my starter in my final team. And then Meowscarda is just there.

  94. I wound up really liking Meowscarada, so I stuck with my original plan of starting with Sprigatito, but I also liked Skeledirge a lot, so I bred one to use on my in-game team as well.

  95. I like the cat's final form, surprisingly. I'm kinda meh on the fire type's final form. The duck is one I really don't care for.

  96. I won’t say I had expectations but none of then were what I thought from the hints in the leaks. That being said I was initially disappointed with Meowscarada, but still picked Sprigatito and the final form grew on me, and I actually really like it now. I had figured it would look better in game. Skeledirge is cool, not what I imagined but it was a cool design, I was worried of where they were going with the 2nd form but it worked out. Lastly Quaxly.. well if I’m being it’s just mid for me. I don’t think it’s bad, but just doesn’t really do anything for me. I’m in my 2nd playthrough rn and i’m using Fuecoco, but if i’m being honest Idk if i’ll be doing a playthrough with Quaxly. I might just use Sprig from now on bc I love how they are.

  97. Quaxly's final evo should have been aborted, Skeledirge is a hot mess, and Meowskarada is basic but fine. Very disappointing set of final evo's imo. I rarely box my starter, but this gen I did it almost immediately.

  98. Imo themes have become too overpowering. Looking at you gen 8 all of the starters are humanoid. They look more like people and less like Pokémon. Even gen 7 is guilty of this. Gen 6 is where it started but worked pretty well. Greninja and Delphox actually fit there theme and it’s no so overpowering that you can’t tell what animal there supposed to be.

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