Official Discussion - The Woman King [SPOILERS]

  1. “Damn…my mentor died in my arms , I lost my virginity, and my mom who I just found out is my mom became the woman king…This has been one crazy day” lol

  2. I had so many issues with all the “coincidences.” What are the chances that Nanisca’s child would not only survive to adulthood but would end up in her camp? What are the chances that Nanisca’s rapist would become the general of the Oyo? What are the chances that Nawi would be the child of two generals? What are the chances that Nawi randomly meets the one mixed-race European/Brazilian? And this guy also happens to transcend his mulatto status to be a childhood friend of a wealthy slaver merchant?

  3. People don't like it because it gets the actual history wrong. The people portrayed as heroes in the movie were in reality fighting on behalf of keeping slavery. But the film flips that around. Thqt aside it can still be an entertaining movie, just realizing its not reality is crucial for some people.

  4. Incredible film. Only people I know who are super upset about it are just serial redditors/tweeters - regular people that aren't serially online don't even know about the controversy around this movie

  5. I personally enjoyed it a lot. It has a surprisingly somber tone, the ad was off putting but the film didn’t disappoint.

  6. It's outstanding. It will be a major contender during awards season, which is remarkable for a heavy action movie.

  7. Was honestly surprised this was PG-13. It felt a lot more brutal and violent than other movies with that rating. Goddamn that crawling through the thorns scene was intense.

  8. Same here! I genuinely thought this was an R until I checked afterwards. A lot of PG-13s these days are hesitant to even show blood.

  9. The rating system is super inflated though, in my opinion. There's very few if any PG-13s that I would refuse to let a kid see til they're 13.

  10. I went in without trailers or knowing the rating. I totally would've thought this movie was rated R. I feel like the sound design really sold those action sequences and made it feel like I wasn't missing all the blood and guts.

  11. Yeah, it pushed that PG-13 rating right to the edge. Wouldn't be surprised if they had to make some cuts to get it to that level.

  12. Most surprising twist I did not see coming is Viola Davis injecting an Apple (Sharktooth) AirTag in her baby daughter long before NFC technology was made.

  13. Not that this movie needs to make logical sense, but why would she put a subcutaneous shark tooth in her newborn baby if she expected Amenza to “take care” of it anyways? Were they trying to stage a fake shark attack?

  14. Great movie but it drove me mad when Nanisca and Nuie (sorry about the spelling) jumped off a cliff, swam to the boats, were rowed 200 meters and then jumped out again bone dry.

  15. I dont know mate. I think Julia Roberts would be better choice on her acting skills alone. Viola is ok, but Julia would truly depict her.

  16. I'm so sad. Walked out super excited about this incredible movie, hopped on Reddit, now I'm so angry at people. I would suggest watching this with your friends or family, not alone like I did and definitely don't go on Reddit and get depressed

  17. Because we live in a technocapitalist hellscape that pumps our feeds with reactionary content that causes constant anxiety, but instead of dealing with that we take it out on each other because modern technology also makes our lives very comfy.

  18. Ya I think it would have really benefited from brutality. We’re talking about rape and slavery here— there should have been blood lust revenge amongst the warriors.

  19. The fight choreography was done by someone who did stunts in both Infinity War and Black Panther so it's not shocking. Choreography seemed great though, just not particularly gory or bloody.

  20. Kinda wish theyd delved into the darker aspects of the Agojie but then you dont get a PG-13 rating or the "uplifting" tone, but most people know all of jack and shit about history, let alone African history so i expect itll be generally well received.

  21. It was more than a little inaccurate. If the basic premise of Braveheart was a man fighting for Scottish independence the movie showed that and added a ton of extra. This movie showed the Dahomey as some sort of freedom fighters that were abolitionists. In actuality they were enslaving and selling fellow Africans long before white people came and only stopped after the same white people said they weren’t doing the slave thing anymore. If Braveheart had showed Edward the Longshanks fighting for Scottish independence it would be analogous.

  22. OK but about the fight scenes, I will never buy a 15 year old looking girl that weighs 120 at most jumping on a 230 pound male warrior and snapping his neck. That isn't realistic to say the least.

  23. Yeah i had to look past the "out kingdom will be based on... Palm oil!" Stuff, seemed like an easy way to cast a heroic light on them that didn't feel realistic.

  24. While the fights are good, the camera movements in many of them threw me off as many modern action scenes do these days. Acting on another level though.

  25. I think it was implied. Does Nawi say something about this to Nanisca after they reunite? I thought she did but I couldn't understand it. I'll need to rewatch with subtitles

  26. I turn over to my friend and asked him the same thing. I mean it's whatever, I just thought it was a weird choice 15 minutes after she's devastated by the lost of her sister.

  27. i’ve seen this movie 3 times now and I never thought they had sex until I came to reddit and saw people saying they thought so. now I don’t know lol

  28. I think? I both appreciate that they didn't oversexualize her because the age difference between them looked vast. But I also wanted to see his booty lol

  29. END CREDIT SCENE - Did the character reading the names of the fallen end with the name Breonna? That’s what I’m sure she said.

  30. I could see this movie getting some Oscar nominations, Viola for Best Actress 💯, Lashana Lynch Best Supporting Actress, maybe Thuso Mbedu Best Supporting Actress (some of her scenes tear your heart out), Cinematography, Costume Design and Best Picture.

  31. Good fun movie with strong performances and cool fighting scenes. Felt like it could've been like 20 minutes shorter with a little less of the hinted romance, but that's all I've got in terms of complaints really.

  32. I liked Malik as a character though and I wish they delved more into him going back to his homeland and his thoughts. But yeah the romance part felt out of place

  33. This was my take. Loved the film, but they could have axed the "love interest" and the movie would be basically unchanged.

  34. LMAO what? I'd say a major component of the movie address slavery. What makes you say it was just breezed over?

  35. im pretty confused by hollywood making a movie about black women butchering white european men trying to defend other africans from being butchered and enslaved by them, and then try to label it as some empowering film for black folk.

  36. Iiiii don’t agree with that. I think we’re used to seeing movies with African slaves just make the WHOLE movie about slavery when this movie throw a lot at you. I wouldn’t say it “ breezed” over it

  37. Honestly, during the second swimming pool scene, I was legitimately scared that Nanisca was gonna slap Nawi when she was yelling at her, but no, she just admits flat out that she was raped and reveals how she’s her daughter. I loved that subversion.

  38. The discourse around this is nothing but social media tail-chasing. Very tiring. It's a solid movie, contains moral contradictions and simplifications, doesn't always deal with its subject matter with 100% honesty BUT manages to tell a good story full of compelling characters who really resonated with me.

  39. Yeah it's like everyone is so fucked up that they find it unbelievable that there's functioning humans who can separate fiction from reality. I went into this movie thinking I was gonna hate it. Walked out and haven't stopped praising it.

  40. Tbh though, people in the west should read up on african history, many African countries have histories that are at least as interesting as Egypt's. I dont know why we only learn about Egypt.

  41. except you don't need a PhD in African studies to understand what the Daohmey did.... a quick 10 to 15 min read in wiki can give you a decent picture of what they did.

  42. True, i thought the Roman Empire, Mediavel Europe, Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt and Feudal Japan were the most popular and heavily discussed old civilizations, but i guess everyone knew more about the Dahomey Kingdom.

  43. The question is...does this movie managed to stand on its own, regardless of historical innacuracy just like Patriot, The Last Samurai, etc?

  44. I think the movie is really good, but the departure at the end does feel out of tone even in the vacuum of just thinking about this as a film. The film feels so emotionally nuanced that I think it would be better served by Boyega going back on his word at the end and refusing to end slavery. Would have given a more melancholy ending that would feel more in-tone.

  45. I’m with you that gladiator did fucking damage to the idea of how gladiators actually operated and made it way happier than it was.

  46. As someone who walked into this movie without knowing anything about how the Dahomey actually were, I can’t see how people are seeing Hollywood glorifying the slavers, when most of the movie ain’t even about slavery. Yes I understand that the movie is based off a true story but that doesn’t automatically mean that they were focused on slavery, if anything it was more of a subtext in the movie. I do have to agree that the main goal of the movie was to empower black women, which is something Hollywood knows we eat up. At the end of the day, this movie shouldn’t be held to any form of historical accuracy solely because it’s a movie… I don’t see how anyone can take a movie for it’s word

  47. My only addition to the discourse is that the movie should’ve been called Rollin’ with Dahomeys

  48. In most African ethnic groups, a Queen is just the wife and subordinate of a King and does not rule. When a woman leads a group, she is called a king.

  49. I was discussing this earlier with my friend. Do you guys think Nawi had sex with Malik during the cut scene? I’m trying to win an argument.

  50. Lol audiences are loving this film. Once again, resounding evidence that Redditors do not represent the average audience at all

  51. Is it not possible to enjoy the film, like a lot, but take offense to actual slavors being portrayed as the "good guys".

  52. This was like a C+ Marvel movie you'd see and have a good time but forget about it. Riddled with cliches, a movie score that holds your hand and leads you to what you are supposed to feel. Really fun action. It was an enjoyable movie, but nowhere even close to being great. I would be baffled of this won any awards, outside of Viola Davis. Viola Davis is becoming like Meryl Streep where it's almost cliche that she'll be nominated, but she is undeniable in everything she's in.

  53. Really enjoyed it, but there were two aspects that felt very "Test Audiences ruined this" for me. First off, Davis is just giving an amazingly captivating performance during the shark tooth scene and the choice to cut to a flashback feels like a lack of trust in the audience. Just let us watch her monologue! It's a good monologue from one of the best actors living! The second aspect is the ending feels really out of tone. Davis, without qualification, winning everything she wanted through pure gumption just feels like such whiplash opposed to the emotional nuances on display beforehand. The film would be better served with a more melancholy ending. Maybe Boyega needs to back out of his promise to end slavery or only fails to punish Davis's breach of loyalty due to the political respect Nanisca commands. It doesn't have to be exactly those two options...but something needs to complicate.

  54. I really liked the fairytaleness of the ending. We the viewers all know it's only a matter of time before the Dahomey get colonized, even if we don't know (the other comments tell me) that they were historically an important part of the slave trade. The time period makes the ending bittersweet no matter what, and the fluffiness of the ending feels like a reminder that we were watching a fantasy of history, not a true story

  55. The 2nd part is more for me is fine, mainly because I'm tired of black people being tortured in film, but if the payoff is "she gets what she hoped", I'm not mad at it.

  56. Well a movie glorifying slavers primarily known for catching and selling african slaves to the Americas is not something i expected in 2022.

  57. Viola Davis's character is the only overtly anti-slavery character though. The king changes his opinion frequently and everyone else is tacitly on-board. I thought it struck the right balance of making the agojie individually virtuous without whitewashing the culture whole-cloth but YMMV

  58. An enjoyable, action packed, but historically inaccurate film, about a part of the world and period of history rarely covered in Western media, with some great performances too boot, 8/10

  59. Thuso Mbedu who played Nawi was absolutely INCREDIBLE. Viola Davis, Lashana Lynch, Sheila Atim all played their roles perfectly and made their characters great and interesting but Mbedu stole the show for me. Her character absolutely came alive at times.

  60. Couldn’t believe that actress is 31 years old irl because she’s suppose to be 19 in the movie. I thought they found some fresh faced young new comer lol. Either way this movie should put her on the map and get her some high quality roles. She was fantastic and honestly deserving of some awards consideration possibly.

  61. Man I’m sorry this movie was amazing to me. The scene when she asked her mother to dance with her. The music, the acting, everything had me very emotional. Even with the historical stuff not being true at times, it really captivated me.

  62. The Patriot, Argo, Pearl Harbor, Braveheart, Apocalypto, Gladiator, U-571, JFK, Shakespeare in Love, Alexander… etc etc etc. Are not historically accurate, but they’re still great movies. Don’t use movies as your history book, use them as a bridge to read more.

  63. this is a clear example of reddit creating a controversy around something, but people who aren't serially online are unaware of the controversy. The people around me in my theater had no idea there was so much turmoil online about this movie, and everyone ended up loving the movie. It's pretty damn obvious why people are going after this movie specifically.

  64. I am usually the first to apply a critical thinking lens to a film but this time I really could not care less about the controversy.

  65. Just watched this today thought the film was good only thing that bothered me was the accents. It’s like whenever Hollywood depicts Africans in movies they always go for that one weird accent that never sounds quite right. If you listen closely you can pick up that the same accent was used by characters in black panther. I did think that John Boyega accent was top notch though obviously because he is Nigerian and they always know when to switch accents. I wish Hollywood will do more in terms of using languages from whatevr regions the films are based on. Also this is loosely based in west Africa why did I get a South African soundtrack kind of vibe? Or just me

  66. Accents are a big thing in Hollywood right now. The "African" accents in The Woman King are just as pointless as the "Italian" accents in House of Gucci.

  67. I wish there were a non-racist sub or a movie sub where the mods maybe kept out fucking racists and misogynists, but that is WAY to much to ask in 2022 Trump land. This movie was brilliant, powerful, and unique. More of this kind of movie, PLEASE!!!!

  68. The historical inaccuracies are particularly problematic, no? It's straight up historical negationism by portraying slavers as heroes. It's like Gone With the Wind in a way.

  69. Just came back from watching it, I thought it was great! I was a bit shocked at all of the gore( I had to hide behind my fingers) but the audience loved the film. Tons of comments and hooting and hollering!

  70. Viola D talks about the important of history, and then admits she left out certain facts to paint them in a more favorable light, lol woooow.

  71. The actors are doing a good job (I especially liked Lashana Lynch), given the relatively shallow characterizations in the script, and the costumes look OK. Battle scenes are mostly everybody yelling and running around combined with some brutal machete work and hip and shoulder throws reminiscent of an early James Bond movie. There is quite a bit of documentation about the way the Agojie trained and fought as well as traditional African martial arts in general, and it would have been nice if that had found its way into the movie. But apparently the makers were too busy rewatching Braveheart to do any real research in this area.

  72. I enjoyed the movie, the cast was perfect (not the Portuguese) and the fight scenes great! My only problem as a Portuguese speaker was the "Portuguese" cast. I felt uncomfortable, along with everyone else in the movie theater. Every time there were dialogues in "Portuguese" we laughed because it was very noticeable that they were foreigners trying to speak the language. They could have invested in Portuguese actors. Would give more consistency to the movie.

  73. This movie fucking rips. Honestly, it was great to see that kind of classic war epic where you kind of watching the culture from the inside and slowly etch forward to the growing threat of war. The costume design and the set design is so good. Everyone is delivering here, especially Lashawna Lynch. The action is actually pretty clear for it being so much weapon-to-weapon combat, even at night and with all the smoke.

  74. It’s a 6/10 that I would’ve rated as a 9/10 if it more explicitly showed off King Ghezo and the characters as outright anti-heroes instead of trying to cover up history. A damn good movie, but you cannot justify the fact that the creators do try to not show just how bad things were.

  75. That’s where I landed as well; to add on, the brutality and violence depicted and some honest exploration of the gray morality of nearly every character clashed so hard with the trite crowd-pleasing Hollywood elements to me

  76. Just finished watching it. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I dont know about anyone else but I could have done without the romance between Nawi and Malik.

  77. Conflicted with this movie. I don't think anyone has ever gone as far as to put slavers in a positive light? The movie is marketed with its historical aspects in mind, so do you consider that for a review? I would hold it against a movie if I was anticipating my favorite historical elements and they got it wrong, so I suppose I have to do the same here.

  78. Plenty of movies about the Founding Fathers have put slavers in a positive light, but that's more by gliding over the whole slavery question than by making a movie specifically about how much they hated slavery and didn't/didn't want to own slaves.

  79. Of course they have. History is grey, not black and white. Nearly every ancient civilization had slaves. There have been many films made about these cultures.

  80. There are many mentions of it. A few flashback sequences of the same rape. They show a woman tied up, men around her and one on top of her. Nothing I would consider super graphic, but it is there. It cuts in and out fairly quickly. There is also a scene of a woman for sale where a man inspects her body, teeth and breasts physically. That is all I can remember at the moment. They are as tastefully done as that subject can be. I just wanted to make sure someone who has seen it responded to you. If you or a loved one are sensitive to that, it is there.

  81. So I just watched this. I was going to give it a 7/10 for a movie, which means it's pretty good. I found it to be trying REALLY hard to make it a war epic, like I see others are saying, like the African Braveheart, but I think that is where my review holds back a bit, is that I didn't really find that all very believable.

  82. It definitely is alternate history, the real story is the kingdom made most of their money selling slaves to the white men, actually the white men never kidnapped black people from Africa to my knowledge, the Dahomey kingdom sold slaves to the white men, actually they made a fortune on slaves and they never changed their slaving to palm oil, actually the British empire at the time outlawed slavery and the Dahomey kingdom sold them anyways.

  83. To be fair, once you get to that last sequence of the movie, Inglourious Basterds is pretty much also a historical rewrite, so there went that point about trying to distinguish between "fiction" and "rewrites".....

  84. I enjoyed it. I heard a lot of buzz about this from TIFF so I saw it tonight to give it chance and it was entertaining. The movie has a lot of great action and well shot choreograph moments throughout. The fight scenes, action structures and sound design is really well done and the performances from all the cast members are really great.

  85. There was a lot of controversy about how slavery by the Dahomey and other kingdoms wouldn’t be addressed by the film so it was a shock when I saw the film that it managed to be a major plot point for almost half of the film. We see Dahomey dissenters and supporters and colonizers as well someone of mixed Dahomey decent that mixed the complexity of the film. I think this film will surprise people and I wished it focused more on this part of it. Viola Davis’s performance was great. 8/10 film. Solid film.

  86. That is due to the fact that the controversy was made up by people who had no idea what the plot of the film was, but they still wanted to pre-emptively knee-cap it at the box office. I too read all the takes by overnight African History scholars who railed against the inaccuracy of the film and how it ignored the slave trade. Oh, guess what? It didn’t. They had absolutely no clue what they were blathering on about.

  87. They have crossed the Rubicon with this movie. To take a story that and just lie by glamorizing one of the biggest slave traders in history is utter insanity.

  88. a lot of people said this movie was wasn’t going to be historically accurate and they wouldn’t show them being slave owners when in reality it’s a major plot point of the movie. I think people wanted to hate on this movie but it turned out really well made. Really fucking gnarly though. One thing I liked it wasn’t a “ wHitE mAN bAD” movie. It showed the horrors of slave trade and the Villain of the movie was greed

  89. Nothing wrong with changing history to portray slavers as the good guys, right? Let's make a pro-Hitler movie next time and see if the same "its just a movie lole" argument still applies. Or what about a movie portraying white slavers as the heroes?

  90. A movie based on the "War of Northern Aggression". Where the heroes fight off those pesky northerners trying to change their noble, simple, way of life!

  91. Just got back from a viewing. It’s quite good! Despite being predictable and ham-fisted, it does manage to get you emotionally invested. Davis, Lynch and Mbedu really shine.

  92. Honestly that’s what I felt after watching it. Literally everything on a filmmaking level works for me. The only thing holding me back is that uneasy pit in the back of my throat as I remember what this tribe was actually like. Making up an original tribe and saying that you were inspired by different African tribes and cultures (like Black Panther did in superhero form), would have made everything much easier to take for me.

  93. It made more than the Northman opening weekend. Hollywood, please see this as proof that there is an audience for historical films set in Africa, Asia, the Middle East, etc. Spice it up a bit.

  94. The Northman was a rated R film with deeply disturbing material that was evident in the trailer. This is not as clever a comparison as you think it is.

  95. I enjoyed the movie. It's everything you want out of a blockbuster. Legit action flick? Check. Political intrigue? Check. Coming of age? Check. Romance? Check.

  96. This. Reddit, especially this subreddit, wanted this to fail so bad. None of them cared about the tribe before this came out. They just needed something to be angry about. I wonder if they will ever accept that they are under the same rage algorithim as dudes who follow far-right you-tubers.

  97. I'm not gonna lie. This movie was bad fucking ass. It felt like Gladiator, a serious story about some serious badasses with great action and some really meaty roles for some incredible actors. I loved it.

  98. It’s funny how now all of a sudden y’all care about “historical accuracy” when most Hollywood movies y’all drool over contain some historical inaccuracies…

  99. Most peopledon't mind changes to historic events/people to make them more palatable to general audiences e.g. braveheart, darkest hour, etc

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