Official Discussion - The Gray Man [SPOILERS]

  1. Not in any meaningful way from memory in the first book it starts and ends over a few hours in Europe there is not planes or jets for Gentry everyone travels to him and he fucks up there shit on his way to London maybe? I remember really loving the first book at the time it's strange seeing Court as a Handsome ass tall king when in the books he looks kinda like a stocky short every guy that you wouldn't take a second look at. Court Gentry is what John Wick wants to be when he grows up but as well as being a killer he's a sneaky sneak

  2. And de Armas's character really went from shooting tranquilizer darts to blowing up people with a fucking bazooka

  3. Billy Bob Thornton played an excellent Donald Sutherland. The movie was okay for an action pic. I wouldn’t consider it 2 hours wasted, but I was hoping for more.

  4. honestly kinda lends credence to the teams being too distracted to shoot the guy on the bench. Evens goes from being the viewer saying, "why doesn't someone just shoot the handcuffed guy?" to: "take out the truck no one can get a shot." when the rpg dude could have just shot the bench.

  5. He seemed to be having the time of his life with this role. His character was fairly uninteresting but his acting and dialogue took over every scene haha.

  6. Evan’s role is probably low key a most refreshing take in a sociopathic villain I’ve seen in years. It was really fun seeing him being so remorseless. Pushing his cannon fodder henchman in front of him to take that RPG, cursing and kicking the corpses of his henchman, etc…and still so upbeat

  7. He was playing it straight up as Wario Captain America. Be super insincere and do the opposite of everything Cap would do.

  8. Honestly he's always better as a villain, which is weird considering he spent a decade playing the most white meat babyface in history.

  9. I love that they apparently have a black site in Monaco of all places. Since the scene is fully indoors, it doesn’t even matter where it takes place. They could have pulled any country out of the hat, and it would have made just as much sense.

  10. I dunno what pissed me off more, the needless location switch and adverts or the god awful drone cams

  11. If by world tourism you mean visiting Prague :) Most if not all the locations before they get to Prague were still shot in Prague, the Croatian castle was in France.

  12. Eh, most of the scene were shot in Prague (Prague, duh, Baku, Bangkok, Vienna etc.) anyway, lol. And what wasn’t shot in Prague was shot either in France (forgot the location name, but it’s the one with the all the “Croatian” castle scenes, i believe) or LA/ studio. So, they didn’t actually travel THAT much, lol.

  13. It would have been better if Lloyd tried to kill the girl in front of him while he was waiting for payment and the guy attacked Lloyd to stop him. Then Lloyd killed him during the fight. That way we see that Lloyd isn't just a talking douche-bag but can back it up before his fight with six, but you know I am not a Hollywood writer or anything...

  14. There was enough creative action scenes like when Ryan Gosling "cheats" on the train with the building reflection, that made me enjoy it. Obviously the shaky camera and myriad of smoke and other elements that block the action made some action sequences unwatchable. I loved Ryan Gosling's methodic and quiet character. There was that MacGyver scene he had in the trap room that made me smile.

  15. the smoke inside due to the flares was cool at first but I also wondered if some of the smoke is digitally added to cover/mask the stunts or some head replacement

  16. Stupidest decision ever. They're saving them for a sequel even though they're the weakest characters in the film

  17. I kept expecting Suzanne to throw down considering her previous roles in Matrix Resurrected, Iron Fist, and Game of Thrones.

  18. They wouldn’t kill Suzanne off, she’s introduced in the fifth book, but she’s a pretty important character from then on. As for Denny he’s introduced in the second book and he serves as the big bad up until the fifth book. They could have killed him off now, but I think they’re trying to give him a new dynamic with Six which I’m a bit torn on really.

  19. I was born in Prague, visited very often, and I spent the whole movie to pinpoint the locations. When I first saw the trailer I sent it to my parents and told them that Prague is gonna be wrecked. It was nice they used native speakers/actors for the cops. Normally when they shoot movies taking place in "Germany" you'll hear them using Americans or whatever actors with heavy accents.

  20. My least favourite thing about this movie (apart from the editing) were the action sequences. Move the camera erratically, switch angle ten times within a five second time frame, blast flare smoke everywhere so you can't see what's going on. Just complete nonsense. The initial fight scene and the plane escape were the worst victims of this. Surprised by the people praising the choreography since it was nearly impossible to see.

  21. I agree but they did have this one cool shot where the characters fighting fell over and the rotated the camera sideways with them. Other then that the camera work felt way to choppy and hard to follow.

  22. Secret kill squad logic: we have the target literally handcuffed to a railing in the town square lets just discreetly shoot him and move on.

  23. That's when they finally lost me. These people's plan was to destroy buildings, kill cops, etc. in plain daylight in 2022 and get away with it.

  24. Kill hundreds of people in the middle if Prague, a European city, hired indirectly by the CIA. Massacre half of the Prague police force. This would be an attack or a declaration of war and would cause an immediate international crisis. Usually, I can ignore a certain amount of bullshit (esp. when it comes to destructiom) in really well-written action movies but that was just insane.

  25. So, they end up. Killing a bunch of people including cops in a European country without any consequences and over the top action in this movie is exactly why I stopped watching F&F movies..

  26. What’s with some of the flashy drone shots? They just happen and end abruptly and were not integrated into the scenes

  27. There are not enough of them for there to be as many as there are, if you know what I mean. Compare to Michael Bay's Ambulance which has so many but it fits in the movie.

  28. With this and that Tom Holland bank robber movie the Russos are trying to show of skill but it ends up being distracting. At least on this one they toned it down by a lot.

  29. There was one particular shot at the beginning in that large open room at the dinner party or whatever it was, where both Gosling and Armas are fighting in the crowd of people with all the balloons on the ground. One shot just zooms by looking at Armas and the goon she's fighting, but it's so quick and she's obscured by the dude that you just end up thinking it was a shot of literally nothing. So out of place

  30. They went with the character trying to get her job back at all costs by attaching herself to Six after the glasses guy got her fired for no reason other than flexing his influence. She was a good "spy movie" supporting character imo. Specially the Rambo-like action towards the end, she rocked those action scenes.

  31. True true, but man she looked so good in those various spy outfits, makes me wish she was headlining her own spy movie. With every movie she comes a little closer to fulfilling that. Fingers crossed Ballerina is finally it.

  32. I don't get this. Does she need character development? What was Ryin Goslings character development. She's a fellow agent that saw the writing on the walll so she helped Sierra Six.

  33. Father and son con men who try to steal some kind of rare artifact. 100 minutes of trying to out act one another with a couple of cool heist scenes.

  34. Netflix basically does a huge budget version of those crappy Redbox action movies only with currently super famous stars and they turn out aggressively okay instead of completely terrible.

  35. That's a good description. I have a hard time putting it into words but they're somehow high budget and low budget at the same time. Like the production feels... Weird.

  36. Aggressively okay is such a good description. I feel like I throw all of these on while I’m scrolling on my phone and never finish them. Kinda funny they’ve collectively throw hundreds of millions, if not billions, on all these movies.

  37. I think it’s most embarrassing for the directors who are getting the blank checks to make them. Either way, Netflix has an easy time getting Oscar noms, because they just have to give folks like Scorsese, Cuaron, and Campion checks to make their movies and those folks will do great with a hands off studio. But for their big blockbusters they see the Russo’s have made a ton of money as directors and just assume that will translate even though it’s very obvious they’re just tv guys who need someone telling them what movie to make. A terrible fit for a studio that doesn’t give notes.

  38. It's like a solid 6-6.5 for me. Don't think it's awful and much more enjoyable than most of the Netflix offerings. Some of the directing/editing was really weird and the writing was real lazy at times (the constant call backs at the end were becoming way too much), but overall Ryan Gosling was snippy Ryan Gosling which is fun, Chris Evans had a great time basically being Lucas Lee again, Ana De Armas had a sizable role so can't complain too much.

  39. Yep the plane scene was abysmal. Considering the budget it's really weird to have a scene this cheap.

  40. Any scene with Jessica Henwick and the dude from Bridgerton played like bad fan fiction with a good camera. I didn’t get cheap feeling vibes from the rest of the movie, but those scenes really stood out to me.

  41. So taking this movie at face value I actually enjoyed it. There was witty banter and Six's character was so badass.

  42. If I ever am an assassin who’s going to give up and surrender to walk away…I would say so before I am very nearly killed instead of later on

  43. If this were an MI or Bond films the reviews would have been much worse. The problem is it wants to be that kind of movie but would probably have been better suited being a John Wick type film.

  44. Ryan Gosling’s nonchalant, stoic persona was fun juxtaposed with his character’s wiseass lines. I liked his relationship with Claire, it was sweet. And I thought Alfre Woodard’s scenes were a particular highlight. she added such gravitas to the role.

  45. i like that for once in these CIA assassin movies, the main recruiter (Billy Bob Thorton) wasnt a total scumbag who betrayed his own guy (well he kinda did but not for badguy reasons)

  46. As far as action movies go, this had A LOT of action. I was hoping for a better plot but I'm okay with what I got. Kinda sad the girl and the old man were truly helpless.

  47. The cargo plane sequence was completely incomprehensible. The editing was so trash, I had no idea what was going on the entire time.

  48. Absolutely terrible editing in that sequence. You know it’s bad when even Uncharted earlier this year (another mediocre action movie) did the same thing but much better (though it was basically copy pasted from the games).

  49. I wonder what the agency think of movies like this. Almost all movies about CIA include a mole or straight up the big boss being a bad guy. Makes a really unflattering portrait. Nowadays when I see a thriller without a traitor twist I'm actually surprised.

  50. For fans of the books, this is like someone took character names and picked random plot points from the first book out of a hat. Fitzroy works for the government. Carmichael is super young. No hit man with a code. They even came up with a new explanation for what Sierra Six means.

  51. Yeah id like to see a sequel, hopefully a bit more dark. I think Gosling did fine but felt the movie was all over the place a bit and the damn shaky drone shots...just finished the second gray man book

  52. i'm confused at the random stuff they kept (ransacking a vets place for meds) and the stuff they didn't. It felt like a combination of The Grey Man, Dead Eye and Back Blast. like Gentry's backstory made a little more sense in the book - he and his brother are basically aready trained by their dad in shooting and tactics from a super young age before he runs afoul of the law. here it seems like that cliche let's just grab random young criminals and train them which makes no sense. and they made Carmichael a generic secret society villain? In the novels there were multiple layers to his betrayal and it wasn't completely unsympathetic, plus the reveal after several books was a nice pay off. maybe they'll still put some twist on it in future movies though. And no Kiev reference?

  53. Bad writing but great action and I think Evans was the highlight. Gosling didn’t have enough dialogue beyond grunts to really do it for me.

  54. Trying to conceptualize this world the Russo Brothers live in in which 12-year-old girls blast ‘60s adult contemporary 7-inches on their Crosleys

  55. To be fair she did live with her uncle for like five years, he’s probably the one who got her into that kind of music.

  56. That girl has nothing resembling a normal life so it works for me. She was living with a retired dude. She’s 12, means she’s been living with him since she was like 7. Not like she gets to fuck around on a phone sonic she lives life hunted.

  57. It was like a first draft of a script and they said fuck it good enough. That was really the only lacking element. They had great action pieces and it was all written around the action and locations.

  58. I'm pretty sure Netflix just has one of those Word Cloud generators that scrapes terms from all the pop-culture website and has it projected via some $2 million giant holographic projector in their board room.

  59. I kept thinking how she and ryan gosling also shared a lot of scenes in blade runner, but its just night and day

  60. This was about as bland and generic as its title suggests. There's nothing about it that really stands out from other movies of this genre and I've pretty much forgotten it entirely.

  61. The ending should have been Gosling back in prison sitting across the table from the female CIA agent and she says "want to go out and play?". Then we get a shot of Ana de Armas rescuing Fitzroys niece.

  62. I can see that I’m already in the minority on this, but I absolutely loved this movie. I’m not sure if it’s because I saw it in theaters instead of at home or because I went into with low expectations lol. This movie just did everything right for me and was right up my alley in terms of what I like in action movies. I thought all the action was amazing. Sure there was some shaky cam at moments but I felt as if I could follow everything just fine. The plot wasn’t anything spectacular but I thought it worked fine as well. I’m here for the characters and the action. I think Ryan Gosling delivered a cool funny suave type character that’s just a complete badass. I love Ryan Gosling and this honestly might be on of my favorite characters of his. Chris Evans was amazing as this in well. The rivalry they had was awesome. From a technical aspect I thought the cinematography was fantastic. I mean that opening scene with the fireworks looked amazing. There were a lot of cool shots in this one. It also sounded amazing. Maybe that’s because I was at a theater watching it though. The score was cool and it was just a non stop ride of action and cool moments. This is honestly my second favorite movie of the year. I’m going to give it another watch though at home to see if it still stands lol. Only thing I didn’t like was him stealing the parachute. In an over the top movie that seemed extremely over the top lol.

  63. Honestly this isn't as bad as reddit would lead you to believe. I know hating Netflix is the cool thing to do but this was a pretty fun throwback action movie with fun performances and some pretty awesome set pieces. Chris Evans is having a blast in his role and Ryan Gosling always turns in a great performance.

  64. I adored some of the references. In the first fight with 4, he stops the gun with his hand. Rather than a typical action movie star “outmanoeuvres the villain” he ejects the clip and pulls back the slide to make the gun utterly useless.

  65. For real. I came to the comments expecting comments talking about how much fun this movie was, and their favorite lines, which this line had many one-liners. Ah well.

  66. Reading the comments on this thread just shows me how god damn insufferable these people must be to be around

  67. That’s what I thought too, it’s a 7/10 for me, nothing special or groundbreaking, but for what it is, it’s pretty good. Felt like a modern cheesy 80s action blockbuster, and Chris Evans was hamming it up as the villain in the best way possible. Down to the 80s pornstache.

  68. This could have been improved greatly if they leaned into The Nice Guys Gosling character that peeks out every now and again in this.

  69. Sometimes I think directors shouldn't imitate Micheal Bay. He knows his stuff. A lot of scenes in this movie made me question The Russo's direction. I mean how could someone make this after making Winter Soldier, Civil War, and Infinity War / Endgame.

  70. I thought this was solid. Ryan Gosling was super likable and Chris Evans was unlikable in the best way.

  71. I was in stitches when she shot Lloyd with a flare gun. As over the top as when Rick used the flamethrower on that Manson hippie girl

  72. Lots of clear set ups for a sequel. The Tamir guy will be making an appearance for sure, corrupt CIA guy still has to go down. I really enjoyed it overall, Gosling was great, Evans was excellent, ADA was very cool.

  73. Kinda surprised Ana De Armas didn’t kill him at the scene towards the end when he said get out of my personal space or whatever I kinda thought she would snap his neck.

  74. The surprise grenade worked well the first time imo. Ryan’s joke with the pin, Chris’s reaction, having a reason to get our lead out of a hairy situation. The second time with BBT was just lame. Saw him dying a mile away, and giving him not only the second surprise grenade, but also the second sacrificial suicide scene was ridiculous.

  75. The guy from Bridgerton quits for these types of roles? He was annoying af in this movie. He also barely did anything.

  76. Yeah I couldn’t help feel annoyed at him. Miscast compared to Bridgerton which made him a star and he won’t even do a cameo

  77. Movie was fine but I’m really curious whether Chris Evans calling Gosling a Ken doll was a reshoot or a funny coincidence. Wikipedia says filming for this was done in July 2021 and Gosling wasn’t cast as Ken until October 2021, so I’m leaning towards the latter.

  78. I know a majority of people will probably shit on this movie probably mostly after hearing “Russo Bros” and “Netflix” but I actually enjoyed this and it’s one of the few Netflix movies that exceeded my expectations.

  79. It’s one of those movies where I can see any criticism of it and with some of them I think "I don’t agree, but I understand why others hate this aspect"

  80. The Gray Man had virtually no character development. All the characters were generic, with no reason to really be invested in them. Thanks to the quirks, Chris Evan's character was the one that was the most fleshed out. Watching this movie was like reading a generic magazine article while waiting at the Dentist, about something that had happened at some point. Such a waste of good actors!

  81. The Bourne movies are very grounded compared to this. Even when things get out of hand, there is plausible deniability for the agency and the fallout can be contained. Operations proceed on a budget commensurate with the outcome they are trying to achieve.

  82. Because if you reduce movies down to their basic plot points it means nothing. Beats don’t make a movie, they’re just the skeleton of the stuff that’s supposed to make it actually exciting and moving. Paint by numbers movies just feel hollow.

  83. Bourne worked because it was incredibly grounded in the real world, especially the post 9/11 world. It didn’t feel like Bourne was fighting for style points, Bournes target had a real narrative, and it felt like a peek into a plausible world.

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