The bill for my liver transplant - US

  1. In my experience running a surgical practice 90% of the time it’s a delay of payment tactic from the insurance company. Denials that should be paid out. They are crooks.

  2. The healthcare system isn’t done properly. This would have cost me 0 in Sweden. How is this mildly infuriating? This makes my blood boil.

  3. Sell another organ to get the money, an eyefor an eye as they say, or an organ for an organ In this case

  4. Call your insurance or don't pay and wait. There's an error. Your insurance should cover all of it. They'll charge you coinsurance and deductible up to your out of pocket maximum, but there's nothing that should be non-covered by insurance.

  5. I was just thinking this. It’s possible that the hospital coded something incorrectly or didn’t get an approval that they were supposed to prior to the surgery. I once got an $80k bill from a hospital because my insurance rejected a portion of the claim because the hospital processed something wrong. I of course didn’t pay and it eventually got worked out between the hospital and my insurance. Hospitals often have automated billing systems that will just send a bill out with no regard to whether or not there is some issue going on.

  6. This. There's no way that insurance would only cover that little unless there is some serious pieces of information that were missing here.

  7. Ya if you’re in network and verified the procured with your insurance before hand, you’d hit your out of pocket maximum and that’s it.

  8. This is too far down the list. I've had bills that get 90% off once I actually talk to a person and/or let time pass for the paperwork/agents to do their thing.

  9. Also, "Acquisition of body components". Shouldn't at least 70% of that go to the family of the donor? These crooks be accepting donations and selling them at a premium.

  10. That's what I'm wondering. How is a donated organ gonna cost 180k? If i knew they were worth that much, I'd SELL my organs when u die and have my family take the money.

  11. Sorry mate, that's fucking shit luck, but 180,866 for "acquisition of body components"? are they crazy? that whole fucking list is fucked up!

  12. Right there with you. Had a heart attack at 34, no insurance, $295,000. Waited till they got a lawyer I pay $150 a month for the rest of my life

  13. Have you apply for an income based bill? Or asked for an itemized receipt and surgeon notes to accompany? It's still gonna be extreme but as long you're at or under upper middle class most practices will knock off 80% or more...that number is an insurance scam.

  14. What kind of insurance do you have? That’s a really shitty payout. I would talk to financial services/financial aid at the hospital. If you qualify for Medicaid they can help you get registered and retroactively pay for this.

  15. Please don’t sweat this bill. You are alive! Fuck this bullshit backwards system, you’ve been given another life.

  16. Can I ask what the symptoms were that finally made you think something wasn’t right with you and start getting tested and ultimately diagnosed?

  17. And/or negotiate your bill down. Reach inside, find your Karen but also remain calm, that’s key, and do not back down. They should be ashamed of themselves.

  18. The "donation" you paid significantly over 2 grand into their company for, over the years, so they could decline it twice and then refuse to cover any more after being approved on the third appeal.

  19. As a Europoor that seems reasonable, don't make Americans make so much more money because of lower taxes and such?

  20. This reminds me of when I called Discover to try to make my student loan payments more manageable. I was paying $700/mo. The rep goes "We could have you pay $350 every two weeks if that helps?"

  21. Send them a check for $30 a month. If they deposit the check good. If they keep accepting $30 bucks a month it becomes the norm. It will be harder for them to sell the debt to collections. It will also be more difficult for them to use this debt against your credit score. This is what has worked for me since I have a similar issue. I am sorry you are going through this but glad you were able to get the transplant!

  22. You can do this with any amount. My grandma has been mailing a monthly check for $0.05 for 25 years for a hospital bill.

  23. It worked for my grandmother. She sent the hospital $30 a month for years, and they never pestered her over it, never sent her to collections, or anything.

  24. My hospital here won't do that. They may cash them, but if you haven't set up a payment plan or made other arrangements by month 3 they send it to collections.

  25. If they sell the debt to collectors it means they likely claimed it as a loss that makes what y is owe exactly $0

  26. Curious if this works for non-medical related bills. I've always been a bit creative when it comes to debt forgiveness and would love to add this to my repertoire. I won't speak to details, but I've been pretty lucky in the past and have stumbled my way out of a lot of debt over the years.

  27. A pack of duck tape costs $3~ and a blade is anywhere from $5-10, assuming it’s a box cutter type blade. Your cost is still marked up around 3000% compared to the materials listed, not included the cost of your expertise or the new liver. I’d say you’re still ripping her off proportionally

  28. Aside from insane price tag, I find "Acquisition of body parts" written on the list of charges kind of terrifying and unsettling. Like we are talking about car parts received from black market.

  29. I’m guessing it’s mildly because OP probably spoke to their insurance already and knows they’re going to cover way more of this.

  30. There is a delay between the hospital billing system (automated) and the insurance company. The first bill is always whack. I usually throw it away. The next bill (if there is one) is what you actually pay. Normally just your deductible. <$1000 depending on your plan. She will only pay 5% of this, if that.

  31. What kind of insurance did you have? This seems extremely high, and most good insurance plans should cover the vast majority of emergency surgery or transplants like this.

  32. The itemized bill makes it appear that just the liver itself would only cover $180k of the $390K. Leaving them with still $210K left.

  33. Call the hospital’s financial services department. Most hospitals are not-for-profit and required to write off a certain amount of services every year. If your income level is low enough, you can apply for financial aid and get some, most, or all of this written off.

  34. Yes, this and more. Put your letter writing hat on and get on everyone from hospital billing, to physician's office, radiologist, lab, emergency department, paramedic service if they were involved ... Send letters to all of them asking for assistance and forgiveness . I'm guessing that the recovery from this one is quite extensive and you won't be able to get right back to work. Explain that and imply that you don't know when,or if you will ever be able to continue working.

  35. Ask for an itemized bill to check for any mistakes/double charges. You can debate this bill, not many people know you can debate a medical bill like this but you can and absolutely should! You can also set up a payment plan that is realistic.

  36. You can also double check that the insurance claim was made correctly. 0% chance that doesn't significantly exceed the out of pocket for in or out of network.

  37. 👆THIS. You can lower a medical bill significantly by making them walk you through the charges, or by offering to pay a much smaller amount all at once, or split up among a few payments. They’re so accustomed to no one being able to pay any of these ridiculous bills that they’ll take what they can get. You can probably google some helpful tips.

  38. You could just not pay it. Hope that you don't get sued by a collection agency. Depending on your state's laws after a certain amount of years they can't collect on it or sue you over it. Your credit score will tank though and you'll have to never answer the phone from any unsaved numbers. Know from experience.

  39. I might be remembering incorrectly but I’m in the same boat as you were and to my understanding that was a law signed a few years ago that makes it so it doesn’t affect (…effect?) your credit anymore?

  40. If it's a state like mine, it's 7 years and then you're in the clear. Problem is you spend those 7 years dreading that letter in the mail stating they are filing a lawsuit on you to freeze your bank accounts, place a lien on your car and home, not to mention guaranteed destruction of any credit you had.

  41. Eventually medical debt falls away too... I went in to make my very low payment and the $9000 I owed was gone. Not gone to collections... just gone all together.

  42. Better get a few credit cards now. If you don't own a home better buy that now too. Your credit is as fucked as your old liver. God speed to you and I hope you have/ had a speedy recovery!!!

  43. I was recently in a bad accident. Transported by ambulance to the nearest hospital where they stabilized me then airlifted to a trauma centre. There I was treated for fractures including multiple pelvic fractures. Only bill I got was $45 for ambulance services. I’m in Canada

  44. I work in liability insurance not medical but right away that 480 can easily be cut down by 3/4. The 480 is the inflated price they put on for insurance companies who then negotiate that down. If Medicare is involved they would slash the bills to under $50k most likely

  45. In the US, the most common cause of bankruptcy is medical. I did it 12 years ago when my son got cancer(he's great now), but it was a 700,000 bill and its just how the system is set up. Nobody ever expected me to do anything but file bankruptcy. It hurt .y credit for a year, but it went right back up and I've had great credit my whole life, other than that blip.

  46. How could your insurance only cover $2k? Even in the developed world, the cost of a liver transplant would be way higher than that. Your hospital is scamming you but it looks like your insurance company is too.

  47. It still feels to dark to say or write.... The man I love chose to die, almost 3 months ago, because of the costs associated with a liver transplant in the US. He was uninsured. Never miss an opportunity to tell someone you love them.

  48. I swear, every time I see stuff like this... Repo: The Genetic Opera seems less like a dystopian future and more like modern day with a better soundtrack...

  49. How many people bitching about this have ever made an actual phone call to their state representatives? Is it even 5%?

  50. I believe some hospitals have or people donate money to the hospital to cover hospital bills where people can afford the coverage that they received. You may want to look into it. I'm not guaranteeing that this hospital has it available but it is worth a check as far as who to ask about it I'm not sure who you would go to. Good luck let us know what happens.

  51. That's something I want to know, in Brazil we don't pay for it, so. HOW THE HELL WILL YOU PAY FOR IT? I mean, a average Brazilian earns like 20k Reais it's like 4k dollars a year

  52. Judging from the comments in here you just pay them $1 a month for the rest of your life and it's fine.

  53. To be honest lol just try and claim fraud would be hilarious to see them just write it all off probably like they were already going to do anyways.

  54. Sorry but the “can’t pay the $32,484.12 a month?” Made me laugh so fucking hard. Also as an American I feel ya. Just pay a dollar a month and they can’t do anything to you as it looks like your “trying your best” to pay it. Fuck em.

  55. Come to Canada. I had a liver transplant in Jan. 2020 and everything was covered. Start a new life here. New name. Free meds. Come. Seriously, fuck that.

  56. This seems like a pretty obvious error. I almost guarantee it will be fully covered by OPs insurance. Not sure why people post obvious errors like this like they are going to have to pay it.

  57. It’s the condescending “can’t pay it all at once?” with the suggestion that ONLY $32,000 a month is an easy option.

  58. A friend of mine broke a leg on a hike (he was in US for work, but this was deemed an out of work accident), had to be helicoptered out.

  59. This is absolutely fucking insane to anyone from a different country. The USA is such a dystopian hell hole i truly don’t understand how people can live there. I’m so sorry, I can’t imagine getting a life saving surgery to face a lifetime of debt. I wish you the best

  60. I call bs. All plans in the US are supposed to have an out of pocket maximum. Once you hit that number, insurance covers 100%. My maximum is $4800 per year. My guess is their insurance hasn’t processed everything yet

  61. Thank you. The medical bill posts on this sub are always so ridiculous. The system is broken but this doesn’t happen to anyone who is insured.

  62. Ask for an itemized bill to check for any mistakes/double charges. You can debate this bill, not many people know you can debate a medical bill like this but you can and absolutely should! You can also set up a payment plan that is realistic.

  63. Genuine question from someone outside the US: What does one do in this situation? I mean, it's obvious that ever paying this down is out of reach for anyone on a regular income and your average normal life expenses.

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