Igbo had a great play at the end but was getting burned the rest of the game. He redeemed himself for this game because we got the W, but we’re hurting bad.
Defensive line never gets home. Our sacks have to be close to last in the league. Had maybe 4-5 pressures on Pickett. That takes a lot of pressure off the DBs if we can figure that out.
Yeah, hopefully it was! Seemed similar to the Pats game and at least it gets us back in the win column and gives us some momentum and hopefully confidence
The FG would've been the best move but what stung the most about that decision was that it was a run. Like, seriously? They stopped your run dead on 3rd down and you try it again?
I sort of agree. Some of the biggest plays the team has had this season have come on 4th down. McDaniel is the anti-soprano which is both a gift and a curse.
On top of that, his time management this season has been questionable. Taking way too much time on two minute drives. Huddling up on that 2 minute drive. Done that a few times this season.
Yeah that was totally a garbage win, but we made it through with a W and Tua stayed alive. Back over .500 baby! I'm hopeful that Tua will figure things out.
Happy with the win. Happy Tua isn’t injured, I expected him to not be 100%, it’s his first game back after 2 monster hits in a row. I’ll take this as a win! Good job guys! 🖤👏🏻
Steelers adjusted quickly and started dropping more back to take those intermediate/deep routes out which opened up the running game. They had a hard time adjusting after that.
Yo I was at the game last week and our fans were weak. I was the only one making noise on defense and I had to feel bad about standing up and cheering because everyone was being so quiet.
I mean he still wasn’t great but I love that he kept it together like this when we needed it. I hope he keeps trying to get better because I love him right now
McDaniel with some questionable Nathaniel Hackett shit in the 2nd half of this game. Hope he learns from that. Steelers defense did pick Burrow 5 times so they're a decent unit unless they're playing Josh Allen. In a week where Brady and Rodgers lose to PJ Walker and Heinecke, I'm just grateful to get back in the W column.
Chase Edmonds has no business being on a football field. Not only did he drop a perfectly thrown touchdown in thr Bengals game, tonight he had two horrendous drops on perfectly catcheable balls and 7 for 17 yards on rushing attempts. Just so bad. I thought he was gonna be shifty and get some yac. He can't get the c
The defense kept us in the Jets game. They do not deserve the “jets put up 40” talk. The Jets offense put up 31 and a lot of that was at the end off of good field position
You can hate how ugly that win was tonight but there are a lot of great QBs who have lost to a lot of bad teams so far this season and some crazy things have happened at the end of games. The fact that Iggy was a hero and this defense continued to be the backbone of this team and pick up the offense tonight even though they’re so injury depleted was very encouraging.
Tua was definitely hit or miss tonight. Some great drives, some pretty bad throws, some bad playcalling, but one thing you have to agree with, is this team feels different with him under center
Another week of our defence getting shit on (mostly by our fans) but stepping up when we really needed it. Which was a lot this week. Great stuff and hope they rest up.
Mcdaniel's play calling after the holland int was terrible. He needs to scheme up some better plays to get the first down and kill the game with offense
I really feel like those drops, bad routes, and bad play calls killed so much momentum. Tua reacted badly and started to force it late. He's got to calm down there.
The good: 1) Our starting QB made it through the game for the first time since W3, 2) W, 3) great 1st drive, 4) defense preserved the win, 5) no sacks allowed.
One of the most frustrating games in recent memory. We desperately needed the W. On to Detroit, would say it should be easy but you never know with us anymore
McDaniel got outcoached but are we surprised? Mike Tomlin is one of the best coaches in the league. He’s taken multiple mediocre teams to winning records that had no business being .500+
That 6 point lead, instead of a 9 point lead for most of the second half, almost did my 63 year old heart in. Can just one of my South Florida teams give me a stress free game once in a while….????
This was definitely the worst I've seen from McDaniel. He needs to stop over thinking. Outside zone is working great so we stop and start every series in the 2nd half with a run in the A gap. Have an easy field goal to make it a 2-score game and instead call another A-gap run, with Edmonds to add insult to injury. And then calling a pass on that 3rd down before the 2-minute warning. I won't even get into the fact that we didn't have any designed end-arounds or screens for Tyreek. I expected Tua to be rusty; you can't mimic game play in practice and he's only been back for a week. But he has to be better going forward, and I think he will be. With all that said, our secondary is so, SO beat up that if we don't make a move before the trade deadline then I have to question whether we want to be a playoff team this season. All in all, a win is a win and we'll take it. FinsUp!!!
For a guy who’s problem has always been ball awareness, probably more than anything else, Igbo finding the ball and then having the body control to get two feet down in bounds was something.
Bad play calling and a lot of rust from Tua but we got the W, this makes up for some of those games you should win and don’t! Take it and move on, another AFC win too, helps those tie-breakers
the bye week cannot come soon enough for this team. luckily there’s a light stretch of games leading up to it but the offense really needs the time to settle in. defense could also use a rest after the way we’ve been treating them this season.
Field goal decision aside, I’m made nervous by the lack of apparent adjustments in this one. Also - this defensive front gets no pressure and it’s just exacerbated by our secondary depth. I’m worried the Lions are going to carve us up unfortunately. Where were the quick out routes and hitches to the outside? Was just such a weird and frustrating game all around - this is in large part because the first drive looked so good.
Huge sigh of relief… awful second half offensively, but a win is a win. How about Igbo making the game sealing pick, what a moment for him! How fitting is it that his biggest moment by a country mile in the NFL comes against Flores’ new team, just perfect.
Let’s not pretend that Tomlin put on some great coaching clinic. He scored 10 points all game (0 2nd half) when we had almost 0 pass rush and 4th/5th stringers in at corner.
You can tell by the messages in the game thread that we have been traumatized by repeated years of high hopes, let downs and broken dreams. Even longtime Fins fans trash the team when we win.
The Noah Igbinoghene 4 trillion IQ master plan was finally activated, he was just PRETENDING to be complete fucking garbage for almost 2 and a half years to lure them into a false sense of security 🧠🧠🧠
The biggest win we got tonight was the air time taken by Tirico and Collinsworth about trusting medical professionals. Even if it looks like something to the audience, we aren't doctors. I genuinely appreciated that they took the time to explicitly say that
Offense started hot but cooled down a lot. Going for it on 4th instead of kicking a field goal was an odd decision. Not a perfect win by any stretch. But a win is a win.
What broke our ugly losing streak last year was an ugly win vs the Texans. After that, we got into the groove of things. I'm thinking maybe that's what happens here. Idk just give me something to hang my hat on.
I'm giving Tua the benefit of the doubt. He's been out for 3 weeks. Hopefully this game knocked the rust off. The team will correct their mistakes and move forward to next week.
Ugly win. But, back on track at 4-3. Defense played quite well. Concerned about our DB's dropping like flies. Offense will be better after knocking the rust off. Not taking anything for granted, but next 4 weeks are extremely winnable. Would be important to sit at 8-3 as we go into the tougher home stretch. Think we can/should absolutely be a playoff team still
I know this would’ve been some monkey’s paw shit but I kept almost wishing once of the dropped ints would’ve been caught so Post-Interception Tua™️ would’ve been unleashed. Happy for Igbo though. RIP our secondary
Mcdaniel should not have gone for it but why give it to Edmonds? Why not Mostert or a quick slant or out to our speedsters? Out of everyone, he chose Edmonds!?
4-14 on 3rd down isn’t going to cut it. McDaniel’s play calling in short yardage situations has been terrible all year. We get a turnover with under 3 minutes left and could not muster one first down. You always take the win but with the injuries, buckle up because it’s not going to be pretty
Adjustments of the steelers really got to us, both offensively aswell as defensively.
I said it in the game thread. The Steelers D is legit. They have dudes all over. We need to take the win, make adjustments and move on
Yeah, I think McDaniel got outcoached today but we were the more talented team. I'll take the W tho, and hopefully he learns something from this
Always knew Igbo had it in him.
Igbo had a great play at the end but was getting burned the rest of the game. He redeemed himself for this game because we got the W, but we’re hurting bad.
Ugly, but I’ll take it. Tua is 4-0 in games he finished.
Yeah, regardless of how it's done or what anyone says, we're definitely a better team with him.
He’d be 5-0 if he finished the Bengals game. Let’s be real. However, the Dolphins are lacking juice right now, especially on the D-line.
Igbo picking that ball saved McDaniel from a lot of discussion as to what he was thinking tonight
The discussion can still be had
People are likley to still discuss McDaniel's decisions
Tons of concerns moving forward, primarily with the DBs and how they seem to be falling by the minute.
It’s the first game with Tua after a pretty traumatic injury just 24 days ago.
Defensive line never gets home. Our sacks have to be close to last in the league. Had maybe 4-5 pressures on Pickett. That takes a lot of pressure off the DBs if we can figure that out.
Whenever Brian Flores is in the fucking building, our game plan is go up early, get stupid, have the defense bail us out.
Yeah, hopefully it was! Seemed similar to the Pats game and at least it gets us back in the win column and gives us some momentum and hopefully confidence
If this is Tua’s worst game so far this year then he could be in good hands. I believe he has the it factor
Ugly ass win but a WIN none the less. IGGY!
Ugly wins usually means defensive wins and that’s DEFINITELY true here.
The irony of Iggy being the one to sink Flores’ team
He was above average and sealed the win. Finally looking like there’s a future for him as a Dolphin
Difference in the game was our defense held on to our int opportunities and theirs didn’t. Was ugly but a win is a win. Happy to have it
That was an ugly W, but a win is a win. Watched it from my flight and definitely had to hold back a few yells.
I had in and out antenna tv and you’re watching on a damn plane?
Ha I had to watch the Jets game a couple weeks ago, while on a flight. Terrible to be in a public setting for that one...
The good: Oline, defense, Backups
It’s hard to believe how bad Edmonds has been.
The bad: amount of Steelers fans at our stadium
Coach you gotta take the field goal when it puts you up two scores.
Could have easily lost us the game.
I didn’t even mind going for it, but a run to our clearly worse back was horrendous. Idk if Tua optioned to that or what but it was bad.
oh you talking about that repeat run up the gut when it clearly isn't working
The FG would've been the best move but what stung the most about that decision was that it was a run. Like, seriously? They stopped your run dead on 3rd down and you try it again?
I sort of agree. Some of the biggest plays the team has had this season have come on 4th down. McDaniel is the anti-soprano which is both a gift and a curse.
On top of that, his time management this season has been questionable. Taking way too much time on two minute drives. Huddling up on that 2 minute drive. Done that a few times this season.
Honestly I don’t trust Sanders. He trusted Sanders last week.
For all the criticism he's gotten, Iggy earned that ending. What a fucking play
Seeing his smile post game made me so happy, We've all shit on him so bad as fans.
Yeah that was totally a garbage win, but we made it through with a W and Tua stayed alive. Back over .500 baby! I'm hopeful that Tua will figure things out.
Where is the appreciation for the O-Line?
Happy with the win. Happy Tua isn’t injured, I expected him to not be 100%, it’s his first game back after 2 monster hits in a row. I’ll take this as a win! Good job guys! 🖤👏🏻
Wasn’t pretty but got the win. Tua and the offense came out hot, but it felt like they went away from what was working.
Also, Mike has to take the points to go up two scores. What the fuck was he thinking there. Curious to hear his thought process.
Steelers adjusted quickly and started dropping more back to take those intermediate/deep routes out which opened up the running game. They had a hard time adjusting after that.
LETS GO TUA AND ON THE 50th anniversary of the 1972 game LOVE YALL!!!!
Was it me or did I hear more cheering for Pittsburgh than I did our Phins?
Yo I was at the game last week and our fans were weak. I was the only one making noise on defense and I had to feel bad about standing up and cheering because everyone was being so quiet.
Fugly but a win is a win
Igbo for the win who would’ve thought lol
Noah with the win like we all expected.
McDaniel with his first genuinely bad game. Iggy with his first genuinely good game
I mean he still wasn’t great but I love that he kept it together like this when we needed it. I hope he keeps trying to get better because I love him right now
Igbo wasn’t bad last week either. The INT saved his and the dolphins night tonight.
I just think he got taken to the woodshed by a future Hall of Fame coach. There’s no shame in having that happen in your 7th game. He’ll get better.
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Tua played like he was quite rusty. We really were lucky their DBs couldn’t catch
Looked to me he was playing too fast, hopefully he settles down into a good rhythm next week
Kind of crazy that this is the worst coaching performance by McDaniel.
You can tell Tua is a little disappointed. He’s really hard on himself
He was downright bad in the second half. He knows that he could have cost the team a win.
That's the sign of a guy who cares. I'd rather have that than a Jay Cutler type of dude who couldn't give a shit if he won or lost.
First time I’ve noticed him curse lmao
Tua said asses on tv lol
Lmao that’s how I knew he was pissed with his performance
You can just see how tough on himself Tua is from this post game interview.
McDaniel with some questionable Nathaniel Hackett shit in the 2nd half of this game. Hope he learns from that. Steelers defense did pick Burrow 5 times so they're a decent unit unless they're playing Josh Allen. In a week where Brady and Rodgers lose to PJ Walker and Heinecke, I'm just grateful to get back in the W column.
Chase Edmonds has no business being on a football field. Not only did he drop a perfectly thrown touchdown in thr Bengals game, tonight he had two horrendous drops on perfectly catcheable balls and 7 for 17 yards on rushing attempts. Just so bad. I thought he was gonna be shifty and get some yac. He can't get the c
Just got back from a watch party. Lots of thoughts. Thrilled about the win. Glad we held on.
The defense kept us in the Jets game. They do not deserve the “jets put up 40” talk. The Jets offense put up 31 and a lot of that was at the end off of good field position
SLIDE MY BROTHER, SLIDE
Tua just said “asses” in the postgame interview lmao. For some reason I thought he never swore
Shocked me
He doesn’t often, he had to have been pissed about the game
You can hate how ugly that win was tonight but there are a lot of great QBs who have lost to a lot of bad teams so far this season and some crazy things have happened at the end of games. The fact that Iggy was a hero and this defense continued to be the backbone of this team and pick up the offense tonight even though they’re so injury depleted was very encouraging.
This is a game we lose 70-80% of the time in the past. The fact that we held on to win and made the big plays when we needed to says a lot.
I’m really upset about Brandon Jones
Everyone apologize to Noah right now. I’ll start: my b, Noah
Sorry Noah :/
I owe you an apology. I wasn't really familiar with your game
I appreciate what he did tonight; we have a long way before he’s fully redeemed.
Noah gets to be the hero tonight. I hope this is a step in the right direction.
This MF been trolling us for three years. They fell right into the trap. Iggy been waiting for this
5.30 AM AT MY PLACE
Fucking A that was not enjoyable
Playing Chase Edmonds is indefensible.
No name DBs rising up to the 72 season namesake
Glad we didn't lose in front of the '72 team.
Felt like an Adam Gase win
TUA REMAINS UNDEFEATED.
Yep, I agree
A win is a win.
Now never put us on primetime again till the Superbowl
Already can't wait until next week to see how Tua plays. He was so good before this.
Sorry, but Noah is still a massive liability and this team has significant problems.
Tua was definitely hit or miss tonight. Some great drives, some pretty bad throws, some bad playcalling, but one thing you have to agree with, is this team feels different with him under center
One of my friends said Tua was the worst player on the dolphins today. He isn’t my friend anymore.
Good cause it’s definitely Edmonds.
I'll take the win, but this game and the past few just show me McDaniel may have an issue with a change in plans.
I disagree, the offense put up nearly 500yds vs the Vikings. My only gripe is he needs to turn yards into points.
Minkah and Flores punching the air hard rn
Punching each other. In the private area. Hands cuffed.
A win is a win. Let’s hope that was just an extremely rusty Tua.
Iggy bailed out McDaniel. This offense has a lot of work to do
Offense looked so bad after the first half. They took away those seam throws we eat on. I’m scared the rest of the year if other teams do this
Another week of our defence getting shit on (mostly by our fans) but stepping up when we really needed it. Which was a lot this week. Great stuff and hope they rest up.
McDaniel had the Steelers -8
Ugliest win you’ll ever see, but if I’m huffing the copium it’s that Pitt just does this to everyone outside of Buffalo.
Can’t some of y’all just enjoy the win, who cares how it happened
Ugly but I haven’t seen my team win nor my QB1 play in a month
Mcdaniel's play calling after the holland int was terrible. He needs to scheme up some better plays to get the first down and kill the game with offense
I really feel like those drops, bad routes, and bad play calls killed so much momentum. Tua reacted badly and started to force it late. He's got to calm down there.
The good: 1) Our starting QB made it through the game for the first time since W3, 2) W, 3) great 1st drive, 4) defense preserved the win, 5) no sacks allowed.
Not kicking a field goal to up 2 scores was monumentally dumb. The analytics are "Rookie QB on the road; down by two scores"
Wtf... we deserved to lose. Our 2nd half offense was absolutely abysmal.
NOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
IGBO!!!!!
One of the most frustrating games in recent memory. We desperately needed the W. On to Detroit, would say it should be easy but you never know with us anymore
I don't think anybody would've said Igbo and Bethel would have picks this game. That offense looked pretty bad though.
Some terrible gametime decisions by the coaching staff. Going for it on 4th & 3 when we could've taken a two-score lead with a FG is inexcusible.
Very questionable offensive play calling throughout. Defensive line needs someone to step up and make plays. Hats off to the secondary.
Holland and Igbo put this game away for us, with the crucial end game interceptions with which the offense have done sweet f all...
He didn’t have the best game, but our man Tua is 4-0 when he finishes the game.
I don’t think this is what McDaniel meant by “check your pulse” 😰
Where’s the appreciation for Chris Grier for finding a guy like Iggy so late in the draft
McDaniel got outcoached but are we surprised? Mike Tomlin is one of the best coaches in the league. He’s taken multiple mediocre teams to winning records that had no business being .500+
Above .500 with the 3rd highest SOS and 2nd best SOV. You gotta take it. Good to get Tuas rust off.
That was an ugly win. But I'll take a W anywhere I can get one!
Next several games are winnable but margin of error is razor thin. Team isn't consistent enough to look past any opponent.
I’m actually glad the offense played like trash. They’re going to come out even hungrier against the Lions next week.
Still MMcD has to call a better game most of his decisions almost costed the Dolphins the game
am i crazy or did our defense not introduce themselves tonight? hoping i just missed it somehow
what the fuck is wrong with this offense? we have one game with more than 20 points.
That 6 point lead, instead of a 9 point lead for most of the second half, almost did my 63 year old heart in. Can just one of my South Florida teams give me a stress free game once in a while….????
Tua knows they played terrible very uncomfortable being interviewed after his performance
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Both McDaniel and Tua’s worst game of the season
Yeah, I agree and surprisingly their worst resulted in a W 🤷♂️ I'll take it.
Hard to be happy about that one offense looks gross
Tua just keeps on winning. 18-7 when playing most of the game.
IBGOAT!!!!
Coaching almost cost them. It’s a victory so that means it’s good. Some things to work on though. Go Phins!
mcdaniel had a bad game and we were really lucky steelers dropped 4 potential interceptions. glad we walked away with the win tho. thank you noah
Good turnover differential tonight and we came out a LOT cleaner on penalties.
Happy with the W, BUT more injuries. Brandon Jones prob out for year 😞
This was definitely the worst I've seen from McDaniel. He needs to stop over thinking. Outside zone is working great so we stop and start every series in the 2nd half with a run in the A gap. Have an easy field goal to make it a 2-score game and instead call another A-gap run, with Edmonds to add insult to injury. And then calling a pass on that 3rd down before the 2-minute warning. I won't even get into the fact that we didn't have any designed end-arounds or screens for Tyreek. I expected Tua to be rusty; you can't mimic game play in practice and he's only been back for a week. But he has to be better going forward, and I think he will be. With all that said, our secondary is so, SO beat up that if we don't make a move before the trade deadline then I have to question whether we want to be a playoff team this season. All in all, a win is a win and we'll take it. FinsUp!!!
For a guy who’s problem has always been ball awareness, probably more than anything else, Igbo finding the ball and then having the body control to get two feet down in bounds was something.
I just wanted to mention again that that post game interview presser thing was the first time I remember him mentioning his wife.
Bad play calling and a lot of rust from Tua but we got the W, this makes up for some of those games you should win and don’t! Take it and move on, another AFC win too, helps those tie-breakers
All I have to say is…
Fuck it, a win is a win
the bye week cannot come soon enough for this team. luckily there’s a light stretch of games leading up to it but the offense really needs the time to settle in. defense could also use a rest after the way we’ve been treating them this season.
Field goal decision aside, I’m made nervous by the lack of apparent adjustments in this one. Also - this defensive front gets no pressure and it’s just exacerbated by our secondary depth. I’m worried the Lions are going to carve us up unfortunately. Where were the quick out routes and hitches to the outside? Was just such a weird and frustrating game all around - this is in large part because the first drive looked so good.
Huge sigh of relief… awful second half offensively, but a win is a win. How about Igbo making the game sealing pick, what a moment for him! How fitting is it that his biggest moment by a country mile in the NFL comes against Flores’ new team, just perfect.
I thought Edmonds could catch??
Chase cannot catch. He sucks so bad.
And that's why NBC Sunday Night Football avoids us like the plague
I get that it was ugly game, but feels like I'm the only fan here who is actually happy we won lol
Let’s not pretend that Tomlin put on some great coaching clinic. He scored 10 points all game (0 2nd half) when we had almost 0 pass rush and 4th/5th stringers in at corner.
That’s the game we would lose in the past, and it would bounce us from the playoffs at the end of the year. Who cares how we won.
W column, next!
Doesn't feel like a win, just feels like we didn't lose.
You can tell by the messages in the game thread that we have been traumatized by repeated years of high hopes, let downs and broken dreams. Even longtime Fins fans trash the team when we win.
We were 7 points favourites. This should have been an "easy win". And instead it was a nailbiter because our 2nd half offense was non-existent.
The Noah Igbinoghene 4 trillion IQ master plan was finally activated, he was just PRETENDING to be complete fucking garbage for almost 2 and a half years to lure them into a false sense of security 🧠🧠🧠
Mike McDaniel really impressed me with his post game media answers.
ugly win but I think Tua's tuning back up after being out. receivers didn't help him sometimes this game
damn i dont know how this fanbase will survive in playoffs only way to win a football game is only if you are up by 60 points with 800 yards passing
MIAMI HAS THE DOLPHINS
THE GREATEST FOOTBALL TEAM
So that was disgusting and bizarro world.
The biggest win we got tonight was the air time taken by Tirico and Collinsworth about trusting medical professionals. Even if it looks like something to the audience, we aren't doctors. I genuinely appreciated that they took the time to explicitly say that
At the end of the day, he is a Y1 coach with three starting QBs in as many weeks.
Happy for Igbo but guarantee nobody saw that coming.
Not a pretty win. Offense sucked outside of the 1st quarter. Tua had 4 dropped interception throws.
Am I the only one who kept yelling at Tua to throw the ball away everytime he was out there on the bootleg?
Offense started hot but cooled down a lot. Going for it on 4th instead of kicking a field goal was an odd decision. Not a perfect win by any stretch. But a win is a win.
I didn't hate the decision to go for it, I did hate the play call though
On to the Lions.
Who's at the game? How much of the rain was a factor in the passing game?
Y'all see the steeler player stuck in his jersey during Tua's interview? I was dying laughing.
Very ugly game tonight we gotta clean shit up, good job defense.
Heart attack anyone?
That wasn’t fun!
I bet inside Brian Flores is happy to see Noah Igbo get a game winning INT since he drafted him
What broke our ugly losing streak last year was an ugly win vs the Texans. After that, we got into the groove of things. I'm thinking maybe that's what happens here. Idk just give me something to hang my hat on.
I'm giving Tua the benefit of the doubt. He's been out for 3 weeks. Hopefully this game knocked the rust off. The team will correct their mistakes and move forward to next week.
Ugly win. But, back on track at 4-3. Defense played quite well. Concerned about our DB's dropping like flies. Offense will be better after knocking the rust off. Not taking anything for granted, but next 4 weeks are extremely winnable. Would be important to sit at 8-3 as we go into the tougher home stretch. Think we can/should absolutely be a playoff team still
We take those wins.
I know this would’ve been some monkey’s paw shit but I kept almost wishing once of the dropped ints would’ve been caught so Post-Interception Tua™️ would’ve been unleashed. Happy for Igbo though. RIP our secondary
Mcdaniel should not have gone for it but why give it to Edmonds? Why not Mostert or a quick slant or out to our speedsters? Out of everyone, he chose Edmonds!?
We got lucky as shit. And we owe our defense allot. Offense needs to continue to atleast kick fgs but can't go lifeless. Good win but fuck allot to do
Where is our offense at????
4-14 on 3rd down isn’t going to cut it. McDaniel’s play calling in short yardage situations has been terrible all year. We get a turnover with under 3 minutes left and could not muster one first down. You always take the win but with the injuries, buckle up because it’s not going to be pretty
9 is so fancy