Max speaks about Jos in an interview with Coulthard: "My dad never said I was gonna be a champion. He was always the opposite, he'd tell me I was gonna be a truck driver or like a bus driver. He was always, in a good way I think, making me realize that what I was doing at the time was not enough."

  1. Obviously he was fairly comfortable money wise and such but damn its impressive how max seems to be fairly stable with his jos stories

  2. +1. I think if he wasn't a global sportsperson we'd be very comfortable talking about how abusive his childhood was. He seems to have completely normalised and channeled it. Power to him if that makes it easier to deal with.

  3. It's a "good way" of teaching because he turned out to be successful. Anybody else it'll be classic emotional abuse.

  4. Asian here too! But it’s with my mother.She was very strict esp abt our studies and I suffered depression as an end result. Was in uni that time with my younger sister and I hid my depression from my family but found comfort with my friends. I think my sister that time couldn’t take to hear me crying every night anymore so she confronted my mom to stop being overbearing. After that, family have a serious talk and my mom finally realized that she’s too hard on us. It gets better after that. I think it’s the Asian overachieving mentality bullshit.

  5. Yep, not many people going around saying Checo/Lewis/Sainz would be better drivers if only their dads withheld affection when they lost.

  6. Same thing. My family tells me "when we look at you nowadays, we know we were right". I did good, but I absolutely have self-image issues and lack of trust in them. It sucks

  7. Asian as well! My dad told me up until a few months ago that I would end up in customer service because med school wouldn't happen. I got into med school and he tries to deny what he told me...

  8. Fear of failure could be great motivator without being emotionally abusive. Saying that, Jos was too harsh basing on all stories that we could hear.

  9. I grew up hearing stuff like this from my dad. Constantly saying I wouldn’t succeed and I’d never be anything without him and could never make it on my own. My only regret in his passing was that it happened before I could show off that I managed to become a homeowner younger than he did.

  10. I dont think its that simple but I do get your point. I'm Indian and I remember this one time I told my dad about how I was helping my classmates with their doubts and how some of the people who I helped scored more than me, he would tell me that one day they'll be a doctor or something while I'll become a janitor. Do I think a parent should say things like that? Ofc not. But would I say that he didnt play a part in getting me to where I am today? Nope.

  11. My parents used to say that I’d be on the dole and pregnant by 17 if I didn’t do well at school. My mum in particular could have rivalled Jos for parent of the year when it came to emotional manipulation. But without it, I can’t say I’d have achieved what I have. Wouldn’t be where I am without her.

  12. I grew up hearing the same shit with an added option which was being a garbage collector! Did not make me like my parents but motivated to work really hard. Pretty abusive if you ask me.

  13. Nah, it's okay, I used to be a bus driver in the Netherlands, and even though Max is quick, I doubt he would be able to keep time on our schedules.

  14. Don't try to stir shit up. There's a context here, someone aspiring to be a racing driver and failing then having to settle for something else.

  15. I don't ever see this mentioned in our weekly Jos is Aweful threads, but what amazes me most is that Max grew up with this abusive crap and still ended up so stable, confident, and strong under pressure. I honestly think that's all Max's personality despite his upbringing, and it's astonishing to me.

  16. I think all the credit should go to his mom, she would have been the antithesis to Jos and provided the necessary parental support for Max to become the stable and confident guy he is today.

  17. I believe you have this opnion the Max today, but he evolved a lot since he started, he didn't deal with pressure as well back then. It's possible he improved a lot after gaining more independence from his father.

  18. Exactly. My dad was nowhere near as bad as Jos, he was just a very vocal man about what he dislikes. Mr. Criticism. When he was on deathbed due to brain tumor, despite knowing that I was never gonna see him anymore, I found it absolutely torturing to be in the same room as him, especially when he went on anesthesia-induced rants about me. As a 28yo man, I didn't want to be in the same room with my dying dad, just because it hurt me so much even when he said something like, "Why don't you give me water? Don't listen to doctors, don't be like them!"

  19. Never know what someone is like behind closed doors . People who suffer from mental health issues can be very good at putting on a mask to the public . Not saying he has mental health issues as like you said he seems stable and confident but some of his stories about his father just scream there always a voice in the back of his head which is extremely negative on his self worth

  20. Max is so young and I'm sure most people don't know him personally either. I'm not convinced anybody really knows if he's properly stable. Emotional abuse can affect people in a large number of ways that sometimes can take time to show as life experiences happen.

  21. Not saying it's right but growing up in an Asian household I would say my parents were very strict and they were what people would say is abusive discipline these days. I came out fine but it's not something I would do if I were to raise a child. Nothing against my parents though since they were brought up that way and didn't know any better. They didn't understand how bad their style of parenting was until I was 18 or so.

  22. Eh, the hottest fire forges the strongest steel. Not that I'm saying I think it's good the way he was raised. But people who endure more hardships are usually stronger as a result.

  23. The thing is Max has a survivorship bias, so he tends to view these incidents as something of a lesson learned or something that made him stronger, but what he does not realise is for every kid with an abusive parent, there are plenty of those who never made it or became successful and are left with trauma and emotional damage for the rest of their lives.

  24. It's so disheartening how angry some people are getting at simply pointing out that this is the dictionary definition of emotional abuse. Nobody is trying to diagnose Max with some mental disorder resulting from it, or saying he's clearly dead inside or something like that. Literally just calling a spade a spade.

  25. That’s what I keep thinking. He doesn’t realize that how he was raised was not good, because he doesn’t know anything else other than how he had it.

  26. As a survivor of severe parental abuse very much along the lines of what Jos did, the amount of people defending him concerns and disgusts me.

  27. I think in 10-15 years we will get a lot of revealing interviews from him when he sees these things in a different light

  28. I know people can't take years off from f1 at the height of thier career, but I sometimes wonder if he would benefit from being away from the insular world of f1. Like hang about on a beach away from all yr wierd father figures, do some therapy, get a hobby idk

  29. I really want to hug him and sit him down and gently explain, Max, this isn't okay. It isn't okay. You are enough. You were enough then and you are enough now. You have always been good enough.

  30. My father also said if I don't focus more on school I'll also end up working in a factory like he does. Jos made mistakes in his racing career, he just wanted Max to do better. You're making it seem way worse than it is in my opinion.

  31. I really do think it depends on the child tbh.. I competed at quite a high level as a kid and everyone on the outside always tells you how great you’re doing so it’s very easy to get complacent.. I Liked the fact that my family kept me grounded and focused by being more critical at times

  32. I hope one day he realises that none of this shit is normal because I would hate this cycle to continue just because Max turned out alright.

  33. Oof that's a tough watch, especially when they're laughing at the start and then it's silence when he mentions his dad feeling nothing is good enough. Max saying "in a good way" gives of very strong vibes of him trying to convince himself that it's in a good way. Jos sounds like a very cold father

  34. People are more complicated than simply good or bad. I cant explain why but this comment makes me uncomfortable.

  35. Ok, so as a person who was treated like this and worse in my childhood I would never say this to my kids, but at the same time I have two seven-year-olds and they refuse to work on their handwriting and one on reading. And I haven’t found anything better than talk to him at length about how he needs to learn to read and write better because teachers won’t wait for him, his classmates won’t wait for him and may use it to pick on him, and that if he doesn’t learn this, he won’t be able to do what he wants to do when he grows up because these skills are necessary for their jobs. I would be like “you’re awesome, you’re great but you gotta work on it so it gets better because you can be so much more, please work with me”. He would fight me every step of the way because all he wants to do is play Roblox and watch YouTube and I’m now a nagger apparently. But I’ll be damned if I ever act like my mother did. My wife just tells them they won’t get access to games if they don’t study. Somehow they’re ok with her approach but I’m the nagger. But I can’t see any other way except explaining it to them like to human beings. They certainly don’t listen if I try to talk to them like kids.

  36. Welp, kids don't have the same priorities as us, therefore setting clear boundaries and having clear/open communication with them is important.

  37. Yeah, these just make me feel bad for Max. As someone who grew up playing golf very competitively I have been surrounded by parents like this (thankfully not my own). I can tell you now, the overwhelming majority of kids absolutely do not respond well to this kind of behavior. In golf it made kids hate the game and lose interest. Some kids would resort to cheating as they would be too afraid to go home having had a bad day. I've seen kids left in floods of tears at the side of the green after parents have blown up at them for "embarrassing themselves" and "letting everyone down." It's abuse, end of.

  38. Seriously, I really don't get the people who are defending Jos' parenting ways here just because Max manage to became champion when others who also went on to become champions, doesn't seem to go through this way with their fathers. Just look at likes of Lewis, Seb, Schumi, etc. fathers who doesn't use the same extreme parenting method Jos' made and yet they still went on to became multiple times champion.

  39. ikr? That's 100% what it is. I try to remind myself every time Max does something unsporting that he was treated more like an employee than a son by his dad.

  40. I just wish interviewers and journalists would stop questioning him on his childhood. He’s never going to do anything but justify his father’s abuse. Seeing someone so successful endorse this only legitimises emotionally abusing children - both for the victims and the abusers.

  41. Same with peopleaways speculating about shit on reddit. We don't know the ins and outs of their private lives. People are so quick to judge without even knowing if their preconceived biases are based in truth or not. It's obvious that Jos is not the greatest father but its entirely unreasonable for journalists to ask drivers(or anyone) about their childhood unless they explicitly bring it up first. Just feels unprofessional to me tbh.

  42. If I'm ever going to meet Max, I think I will just give him the longest and warmest hug imaginable.

  43. Max's Twitter: And suddenly random people on the street started coming at me with open arms. Good thing I know kung fu!

  44. Same. It's like Jos' parenting method is all he knows and he thought it's normal, but it's not (unless you're Asian, I guess). Thank goodness for his mom to balance it out.

  45. Focussing on the effort and not on the results is a good thing, I think. If I tell my child I'm proud of the work he did, instead of the result, my child would start to value the effort instead of focussing on just being successful in something. That will work, since it's easier to be successful at lower levels. So if that is what Jos did, it's good parenting. Of course, the question is if that is what he did

  46. Blatant survivorship bias. No slight on max at all but for most people this would be extremely detrimental because it is, in reality, parental abuse. It’s worked out for him, but Jos doesn’t deserve any credit, I think we can all accept Jos as a massive c*nt

  47. Again not surprised this (negative) clip gets more attention than the whole interview, which is also posted in its own topic. But it seems to get just so many downvotes.

  48. As someone who grew up with a physically and emotionally abusive father, I hope Max someday realises that Jos' parenting is not something to praise or ever emulate

  49. What about all the abusive parents who berate their child but the child ends up being part of the 99.999% that doesn't become a formula 1 champion or achieve the same levels of success

  50. I hope Max has a realisation one day that he didn't deserve to be treated like that. Every time I see Jos on the pit wall I want to throw up in my own mouth.

  51. Remember when he walked away when Max was falling behind in the race in Abu Dhabi just to come back as soon as he won thanks to the safety car? I think it just made the bitter end of that race taste a little like my digested lunch.

  52. I think a lot of credit should go to his mom, she would have been the antithesis to Jos and provided the necessary parental support for Max to become the stable and confident guy he is today.

  53. This is the same shit that my dad did to me. It messes with you. I aspire to be nothing like my dad. Maybe deep down Max has a bit of that that motivates him to go out there and not be like his dad. You know like winning races and championships.

  54. Among the elite of the sports this kind of approach is actually quite common.. Look at Tiger Woods or the Williams sisters, their parents were extremely strict when it came to competing.. if you really want to be the very very best at what you do unfortunately it seems to be the case that this kind of upbringing is common

  55. Or look at what it caused them outside of the sport. Tiger has been a wreck in his personal life, Andre Agassi hated tennis and turned to drugs to feel something off the court. Saying this style of abusing kids is a positive is a massive stretch. Plenty of top athletes got there without abusive parents.

  56. It causes you to have a very strong character. But as a child you need to be able to take it and use it push you forward. Without this type of coaching or parenting, Max would not be driving in TR at 17, or had won the WDC. The GP magazine had a great article on this in the June issue over the personality differences of Max and Charles.

  57. Really wish they'd stop asking Max about his dad. Replaying Child abuse in your head must be insane. Thats literally No way to treat a child.

  58. Shame I had to scroll this down to see this term used. It’s obvious Stockholm that’s so typical with an abuser. “In a good way… I think” he’s convincing himself here too.

  59. When I think about how much Mick must have wanted to hear his father come on the radio and tell him "well done, I'm so proud of you" (and we know Michael would have), and to know that Mick will never get that moment...

  60. this reminds of Michael Jackson's relationship with his father, where MJ said he treated him like shit but he would've never been the icon he was if it wasn't for him.

  61. If this clip is all what it takes for you to write essays about abuse you should become psychologist with that amount of motivation. jfc.

  62. An amusing thing in this thread is that people think it’s just Americans looking down on this style of parenting. Being supportive and encouraging to your kid or anyone for that matter is just common decency, it has nothing to do where you’re from. Yes some cultures particularly from Asia set very high standards for their children but that doesn’t mean all parents put them down or use negative reinforcement to get results. That kind of behaviour is just damaging, as if anyone would want to be treated like that kid or adult.

  63. Bad take coming from lack of knowledge of Dutch culture. Direct communication, without mincing words, might seem abusive and unsupportive to you.

  64. He has already said before in an old interview that he wouldn't raise his own kids the same way. Since he does feel that he missed out on a more normal youth, although worth it in the end for him because it brought him into f1. I might search for it but it's in Dutch as well if I remember correctly

  65. Don’t like either, but I think we are going a little overboard here. To do be in the 0.01% takes a push, dedication, and a drive that many do not have. If someone wants to be the best they need to fight and push to be the best.

  66. I'm glad Max looks to have turned out to be a level headed person considering everything I've heard about Jos.

  67. I went to an Ivy League school, my parents told me I’d be a pizza delivery man until my senior year every time I was doing something “unproductive”…parents are stupid like that.

  68. Really shows that Max is made out of different stuff. A lot of children would have been traumatized by what he's experienced. He's seemed to have taken the best out of it somehow.

  69. Ah here we go again. Sports are healthy, topsport rarely is. That said, Max doesn't seem phased by the pressure from his dad, and he seems to be in a good place. His dad is around, they speak, Max paid for his racing team, there doesn't seem to be any bad blood.

  70. I get Max probably doesn’t see it the same way but surely his PR team might be like ‘hey maybe stop saying the weird shit your dad used to do’

  71. You must have missed the clips with Jos and Michael discussing their children and what they'd like them to do (hint: it wasn't F1), and where Jos explained it was Max' own choice to start racing. At some point you have to make a decision, "are you sure you want to do this and aim for F1?" and once that was a yes, the mindset absolutely has to be "okay, let's fucking go then"

  72. Jos literally said in an interview that no matter what max chose he was going to do the best to ensure that max got what he needed to succeed

  73. Part of the reason I like Max is because I (and I think unfortunately a lot of other fans/people) can relate to having a dad like this. Seeing dads on the grid like Anthony and Antonio is wholesome, but knowing there are dads out there like Jos just sucks.

  74. I honestly hope that people in this thread will have brilliant kids that will not need any parenting because some of the thing I read here make it very hard for me to imagine that you will be able to steer your child away from the bad stuff. Kids needs to know what will be the end product of their actions. If they are messing up, they need to know that if they keep doing it they will fail at what they will try to achieve.

  75. I like his attitude and taking the positives out of every situation. He looks at the big picture and what he needs to improve. How bad (/questionable at the very least) Jos's parenting was, doesn't need to be said (It's pretty well known) but how Max dealt with It, Is a strong mentality, always looking forward

  76. That is so sad. 99,9% of the children won't have that amount of success and be left with the abuse only

  77. Must have been a terrible childhood and I'm surprised he looks so self confident cause that's the kind of things that can ruin your self esteem for life

  78. it's not easy to shape your kid into a champion at this level. He really wanted the best for max and it worked out

  79. Lolling again as usual at the amateur psychologists who have collectively not grown character so that any kink in the road is considered emotional abuse.

  80. it's kinda amazing that people can't realize that there are other types of characters who need or can handle different types of upbringing/training.

  81. Well… Jos was doing what he thought was the best for Max… It may not have been as nice in times but look where it got him… and he’s happy doing what he does so I don’t see a real problem here. Ofcourse, it wouldn’t have worked out with many child’s including myself but I expect a dad to know his child. We live in a time where any form of pushing a child is labeled as emotional abuse but I’m sure Max wanted to be a racing driver as much as his dad. And sometimes you just have to be tough or give up a bit of joy for later… without that, you won’t get anywhere it this world.

  82. I think I know why a lot of kids these days are depressed, constantly offended, see abuse everywhere and never amount to anything. I'm not saying everything Jos did was healthy, but he did raise a tough boy who stops at nothing, doesn't care about his feelings being hurt and realized his childhood dream before the age of 25. Maybe we should be a little bit tougher on kids instead of expecting the world to be less tough on them. Somehow it's always the kids who weren't shielded from the real world who accomplish things in life. And he still has a great relationship with his father. Jos did everything for the kid to succeed, of course he is going to hold Max accountable if that is truly what he wanted. You don't dedicate your life to your kid to then watch him half-ass it. He knew what was necessary and knew what was in store for him. Max is grateful and that's all that matters.

  83. It depends on how you define success. If you define success by going to a top university then sure, but what if you’re still bitter about your childhood? If your relationship with your parents is forever jaded? If you have low confidence and anxiety as a result? Is that still success? Say compared to your peer who doesn’t have a fancy degree but had a great childhood and still has a wonderful relationship with their parents? Perhaps better interpersonal skills as they focused on building relationships at a young age compared to just studying?

  84. You know what happens to child prodigies? They get lazy and they don’t learn how to work hard, they relay on their natural talent when they are young, but at some point that’s not enough.

  85. Max could win the title 10 times and Jos would still think he's not doing enough. It's quite telling that the team has to limit Jos's presence at the races because even now, it unnerves Max.

  86. Jos is also a wife beater so I don't think any of his 'methods' can be classed as successful whatsoever.

  87. And yet ppl are still trying to justify whatever 'methods' he's using here just because Max became champion while ignoring the others who became champion by not using the same extreme 'methods' Jos uses.

  88. I'm gonna be honest. Nothing I've heard sounds like Max was abused as a child. sounds like tough love that moulded him into an F1 champion. your parents are either tough, and you're better off for it. or they're weak, and you end up on reddit seething at other peoples parents...

  89. I think the Jos way of parenting works but only in <1% of cases, and luckily Max is that <1%. Most kids would probably just fall out of love with the sport if they were pushed that much and perhaps feel not good enough. Luckily Max had the natural talent and also the driven personality to do well with that pressure.

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