The outrage over Licorice Pizza is pretty moronic

  1. Case in point: I saw a viral TikTok of a clip from Nicest Kids In Town from Hairspray and the poster unironically captioned it “I never realized Hairspray was so racist wtf”. I don’t even know how someone’s media literacy can be that bad…

  2. Yes, but the film doesn't condemn it. The film is presented as an easy breezy wistful "families and friends" rom com. We know Daniel Plainview is a bad guy and his film isn't encouraging us to become oil barons because that film is a decidedly brutal and unflinching, warts and all portrayal of it's subject. This film shows us a toxic relationship as if it's no big deal and then proceeds to show it completely uncritically, so the result is a film that seems to want it's audience to appreciate it uncritically as well. That's depiction and endorsement

  3. If you recall the film Whiplash, a lot of people who didn't like the movie complained that they glorified the abusive and obsessive behavior of the two main characters. Same with Wolf of Wall Street.

  4. Take your head out of your ass, the movie is depicting the 70s where much larger age gaps were prevalent and it isn't romanticizing it just making a period peice with it being involved. The director and lead female role wrote the movie together and she's smart enough to make the distinction. No art needed to be made, just like YOU didn't need to enjoy the film, but I think it should be appreciated for being very well written. I'm not a even a Paul Thomas Anderson fan mind you...

  5. Make the kid a senior in high school. Or make the girl 21. And boom the movie becomes a million times better in my opinion. Nothing is lost by aging up or down the characters.

  6. How do you not see that the beef everyone has w this movie because of a disagreement in morals? Like you say for other ppl to apply their own moral guidance. Well what do u think those ppl are going to do w those opinions keep them to themselves?

  7. Even then, realistic “depiction” wasn’t the point of the film. It’s amazing how much people took this film at surface level and are outraged.

  8. I think a lot of people are missing the point about how toxic the relationship is between the two leads. It’s played straight but if you look under the surface it’s obviously a pretty manipulative, mind game heavy relationship between the two. All the glitz and glamour of it is a facade.

  9. I agree with this. It’s easy to get lost in the charm of the movie but they’re both controlling of each other without wanting to commit. The ending is sweet but like I said, it’s a fleeting moment just like everything else in the movie.

  10. I didn't like the movie mostly because I found the characters irritating and unrelatable, but the age difference didn't particularly bother me. It's absolutely wrong in the real world, but I found it actually served a narrative purpose by helping characterizing each of the character's immaturities; both of them use their age difference as a way of boosting their own insecure egos, whether they realize it or not.

  11. Idk if they made a movie but Lolita (the book) does detail how the relationship was fucking wrong and fucked up pedophelia and some of the consequences she suffered because of it. While it is explained from his point of view, it was clearly and obviously wrong, unlike Livoric e Pizza where they dance off happy into the sunset for their happy ever after. Have you actually read it?

  12. It’s pedophilia bruh 💀 There isn’t a really grey area between pedophilia and non-pedophilia. It’s like saying age is just a number. There’s a whole decade age difference

  13. There are always going to be people seeking out something to be upset about, often for attention. Sometimes people will piece together things that aren't there, but in their head they believe they are right.

  14. Right on. Just a lot of people who think saying their opinion loudly and confidently makes them correct. Maybe I’m no different, but I can at least acknowledge that my opinion is just my opinion.

  15. And there are always going to be white people not understanding the inherent privilege in every single thought that comes off their brain. The accent is clearly supposed to be a joke? By that sentence you are using ur privilege to overlook a giant swath of Asian Americans insulted by it. Which is really fucked up when you think about it cuz you’re really just trying to say “oh those opinions are misguided therefore I won’t even acknowledge them”. Also, blazing saddles was made like 50 years ago. This movie was made this year. Do u really think comedy comparable to a film from 50 years ago fits in 2022 modern society? You can’t possibly think that.

  16. “Same as it ever was” is the def the undertone of this film and your sentiments here on Reddit. Racism hasn’t changed. It’s the same as it ever was.

  17. The age dichotomy was an obvious vehicle for the meaning of the film, and it’s kinda pathetic if so many people are missing that point. Every single adult man the lead encountered was depicted as being just as if not more immature and crass than the young boys, etc. That interplay was literally a constant throughout the film.

  18. The reason it bothered me is because of the female character (who is a 25 yr old women) and the male character (who is 15) if they switched genders the movie would have been canceled. If it was the exact same movie but the 25 yr old was a guy and it was a 15 yr old girl you’d be the one here screaming and complaining that the movie is awful. It’s the double standard That brothers me , you don’t get to sit here and say it wasn’t that big of a deal when , if it was a man , it would have been a big deal. The movie was disgusting and it was about a female pedophile, which, is actually very common in our day in age. So many women actually think the way the girl in the movie think. They miss being young and prey on young boys. And society treats it like it’s not a big deal? The same way you’re acting rn, which is why these women do it, they think “the teenage boy wants it so I won’t get caught and if I do I’ll get away with it” you are giving confidence to rapists. But okay, call it moronic, lol you’re the moron

  19. I haven't seen the movie yet so I don't have a strong opinion myself but I have noticed, in this thread so far specifically, that every one defending the film is ignoring the "what if the gender roles were reversed comments" which does worry me a bit.

  20. I feel exactly the same same way. I didn’t care for Inherent Vice and actually think I hated this film. But TWBB, The Master, and Phantom Thread are among the best films ever made imo.

  21. Jesus, this "but what if their ages were reversed" tripe is getting old. No, only the same outrage Olympians who are currently clutching their pearls would be outraged. Take an inventory of your position on this....

  22. I haven’t seen it yet but the fact that it seems to unironically promote this relationship is really disturbing. When I saw the trailer, I thought they were both teenagers.

  23. I posted a comment saying the racism bit had no narrative purpose right before I read your comment, and I think you make a solid point that it shows Gary's bullshitting about his own PR company is exactly that--bullshit. Of course, I wish PTA would've done this without resorting to cheap race humor, and there are certainly plenty of other ways he could've done so, but overall that bit was far from the main reason the movie didn't land for me.

  24. Yeah, I had been waiting to contribute to the conversations I've seen online until I saw it (hoping to see it later today!) so I could have the additional context to these accusations, but what you described is pretty much what I was anticipating.

  25. Worst movie I’ve seen all year holy shit was not expecting that. Stale half baked plot flat with 1 dimensional characters a complete train. Also Hoffman’s performance was truly unbearable nepotism is a helluva drug

  26. I mean, the main characters kiss at the end. It’s pretty obviously a little bit more. And if you reverse the genders it’s way more off putting

  27. "reversing the genders" is moronic because the theme of the movie is about how women are treated like children and the adult world is not a good place for them, hence why alana is pushed back into gary's orbit. It's a lot more nuanced than "omg this movie is supporting pedophilia!"

  28. Yeah… I don’t really wanna sound anti-social justice, as I’m a progressive myself, but it’s this brand of “wokeness” that imo has greatly harmed the progressive movement and turned a lot of people away from it

  29. Just because there have been other films that are worse doesn't make it okay. If I make a subtly racist movie I can't just be like "Well Birth of a Nation exists so I don't see why I can't get a pass!" And the, they're fictional argument. Again, just because they're not real doesn't make depicting something like grooming or pedophilia or whatever else in a positive light okay. Soulman is also fictional characters, doesn't make that movie okay.

  30. Let me see. Are you an adult? Bc the movie is meant to be for adults, its rated R for a reason. I believe that you as an adult have already your morals and values on place to differentiate between right and wrong. Unless youre stupid. Some characters are good, some are bad you as an adult are aware of this.

  31. Have you watched Birth of a Nation? It’s pretty clear why that movie, in particularly the end, doesn’t get a pass. Terrible example. Also, no one said it was okay, they argued it was a depiction of a scenario on screen. Look around you at the state of things. Maybe you should think about the way you view these films and allow them to influence you. Or you could always wait for Andy Hardy to start skipping down the street again.

  32. I saw someone complain about Akwafina using a "blakcent" in the new Shang-Chi movie because "Hollywood can't help themselves".

  33. Dude you need to get off reddit and get help, you've been posting literally the exact same comment in every single thread about this movie

  34. Would you say this if the roles were a 25 year old man and a 15 year old girl? You’d probably call that guy a creepy loser. What’s platonic about showing your tits to an underage child? What about when she professes her love to him at the end and they kiss? How the hell is that platonic? Alana is about the same age as those attractive teachers that sleep with their underage students, should they get a pass, you know, cause they had a “passing fancy”? Not only does she go for Gary, but she goes for Lance, another fucking underage kid. And when she has the chance to go for a man, a LEGAL AGED man, her own age, she CHOOSES A CHILD.

  35. The roles weren’t reversed because they would have lost all meaning. The lead female role was 100% necessarily a woman with distinctly gendered experiences throughout the film. Her experience is that of an infantilized adult either through social structures, the shady entertainment industry, or as an adult unable to live independently. Additionally, the age gap is intentionally juxtaposed by every adult male being shown as ludicrous, immature, and crass as actual teenage boys. Every character in the film is effectively dysfunctional and her choices to hang around teenage boys are the results of her stunted life and misguided expectations of herself and her relationships. She doesn’t even think it’s normal. I think you’d need to have an extremely rudimentary understanding of the film to think there’s anything in there remotely romanticizing pedophilia.

  36. i think youre looking at it with little to no context of the characters and who they are. Alana’s maturity is held back by her uber-conservative father. she seems very childish and naive and not much like a 25 year old.

  37. You’re certainly entitled to that opinion but I would say it’s a little different than a teacher/student because that involves a very unbalanced power dynamic and many other factors not present between Gary and Alana…. also, they don’t sleep with each other. They’re not in a relationship with each other and whatever it is isn’t inherently sexual.

  38. I completely agree with you on this. I found the movie to be spectacular, and it's probably my favorite of the year.

  39. The most telling part about this, particularly in regards to the racist restaurateur scenes, is I think Anderson thought he was giving some deep social commentary about casual racism. And he completely bungled it because he's consistently a poor screenwriter.

  40. Okay I’m going to get shot to hell for this but let me preface, I LOVE PTA, the master is my favourite movie and every single of his movies are a masterpiece in my eyes but, Licorice Pizza.. weird as fuck.

  41. i remember i was real hyped to see it. the accusations of racism were always a stretch from what ive heard, but then i read that the plot is about a ROMANCE between a 15 and a 25 year old, so that turned me off. seeing now that these descriptions are wrong and its just a relationship, i really wanna lee it again.

  42. I get what you’re saying but I interpreted the ending a little differently. It’s definitely sappy and endearing on the surface but I think that based on their dynamic for the entire movie, there’s no way Gary and Alana actually end up together. The next day, they’re both gonna be seeing other people. It’s a temporary high, a fleeting moment viewed with rose-colored glasses, ignoring for a brief moment the countless reasons why Gary and Alana can’t and shouldn’t be together.

  43. It was a piece of shit and I wish I would have walked out of it. Im officially retired from PTA. (He was there, too) He can film a guy sitting on a bunch bench for 2 hours, and you dummies would still call him a "genius." Hes been coasting off the fumes of TWBB for 15 years now, and still gets a pass on everything because of it. Wake tf up.

  44. That guy was hilarious. Every time he spoke, I was laughing, so was everyone else. If you weren't, get a life.

  45. I love movies and I love PT Anderson. But I hated this movie. I thought the relationship between Gary and Alana was awkward and uncomfortable. The film tells us nothing is going to happen with them but then they kiss each other and declare their love at the end. I thought the 'Asian accent' scenes were racist, uncomfortable, and irresponsible. Just because you may see it as 'satire' doesn't mean that other people will. Something's just aren't as obvious as you may think they are. If you want to talk about story structure, the film has a terrible story that just meanders. There are several plot hole and scenes that happen but don't really go anywhere. Nice rant, though.

  46. Yeah, there is definitely not a line crossed when the 25 year old kisses a 15 year old and says she loves him. Really proved your point to the ridiculous morons there.

  47. Bruh it’s about a 25 year old and a 15 year old who by end are kissing and saying “I love you”. The movie treats this as a happy ending, therefore promoting what we are seeing. Stop being a pedophile sympathizer. Just cause there are far worse movies doesn’t mean this shit can slide. It’s unbelievable how fucking awful, boring, and pretentious this movie is aside from the main character being a pedo

  48. I could imagine it being seen less critical in the UK. If you check "Queer as Folk" series, the teenage character in the UK version has sex with an adult man at 15. The same character is 17 in the US remake. The male homosexual age of consent in the UK was 18 when the series was released, and it was reduced to 16 shortly after the release.

  49. Virtue signaling online is the new thing. “Let me show you that I’m better than you because I’m calling out a fictional character.”

  50. The thing is people claim to want to see a film thats real but ultimately feel betrayed when it goes against their morals. I rather see a unique story even if certain elements are frown upon

  51. This tiresome drudge bonded me and my fiance in a way we hadn't expected. Walking ng out of that dumpster fire was a pivotal moment for us. Artsy wank with paedophilic undertones.

  52. I am an Asian. You don’t speak for us as to deeming whether scenes depicting us Asians disparagingly are passable or not. The Japanese scenes are racist. Paedophilia aside, the most problematic line is the scene when the unlikeable female lead says, referring to Krav Maga “my dad is in the Israeli army, we all know it”, I hate the unnecessary approval, exaltation and celebration of the Israeli heritage, it would have been fine had they stopped with the Shabbat dinner scene and the extremely cringey obsession with the Jewish nose with the agency scene. I just feel extremely uncomfortable at this day and age with Israel being the modern apartheid state that the director has the audacity to portray Israel in such a glowing light in his movie.

  53. Some people just want to be offended. Doesn't matter what the topic is, they'll find something to offend them.

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