CMV: The concept of "in vino veritas" is bullshit.

  1. But that still doesn't mean that I agree with the thing that comes out of my mouth, or that it's something I would've thought while sober, is what I'm saying.

  2. I think what he/she means is the first thing they think, which then gets blurted out, is not necessarily what they actually believe. I’ve gotten really upset when drunk at things that I don’t care about sober. I’ve said things drunk that even I’m not sure where it came from the next day when I sober up.

  3. It's not meant to imply that everything a drunk person says is the truth. It means that drunk people tend to be less discreet or diplomatic — more likely to say what they really think. Whereas when sober, people better understand that some thoughts are best left unsaid even if true.

  4. Alcohol has a tendency of revealing your underlying emotional state. If you're depressed or have a lot of underlying anger, that will come out while you drink.

  5. It’s more of a generalization. If someone shows zero signs of racism but starts throwing around slurs when they get drunk, that’s a drunk words sober thoughts moment.

  6. I'm honestly having a hard time getting my head around this scenario. Like, have you encountered any racists who legitimately showed "zero signs" of it unless/until they were drunk?

  7. Yes, exactly! I feel like being drunk creates a direct brain-to-mouth pipeline for intrusive thoughts, and for people to then assume that those are your real opinions is ridiculous.

  8. Your comment has been automatically removed due to excessive user reports. The moderation team will review this removal to ensure it was correct.

  9. Hm. I disagree, it isn't bullshit, but it's not foolproof either. This gonna be hard for me to explain, please bear with me.

  10. Speaking as someone who has done some things while drunk that I would NEVER do sober, my actions under the influence still reflect feelings and thoughts within me. It’s just that I would never choose to share those parts of my psyche or act on them in any way without alcohol, or they are normally dominated by competing thoughts and feelings that alcohol suppresses.

  11. I don't subscribe to the idea that our desires and personality are separate from our self control, thought process, and filter in the first place. If I was unable to think correctly, my behavior and emotions would likely be changed drastically, but whose to say which personality profile is "true"?

  12. I see how it somewhat validates the phrase, yes. But I think it doesn't validate the spirit of the phrase, if you catch my meaning- because people tend to use it like "this is what you really believe" as opposed to "this is a thought that entered your mind."

  13. In vino veritas directly means "in wine, there is truth." This is a more modest phrase than "drunk words are sober thoughts." Where the latter asserts that all words said drunk represent sincerely held thoughts, the direct translation simply means that alcohol brings out truths which would otherwise be left unsaid, or even unthought. This modest meaning seems certainly true. Do you disagree? I don't disagree with the heart of your points against, but surely you've experienced the other side of things, where it is easier to get down to brass tax with people after some drinks.

  14. I think you're right; the problem was that I had always heard the the former phrase used to mean the same as the latter, which I took issue with.

  15. It is an amygdala inhibitor. The amygdala is what prompts social fears, anxieties, and other attributes that have been appraised as "unfit".

  16. But if it's not congruent with my core values, then that definitely isn't the "real me" in any meaningful sense. If anything, it's even less me than normal because it's just my "lizard brain/base impulses" with none of what makes me a person.

  17. Sounds like a cheat code to win an argument with someone about something they did when they were drunk and you have no other better point to make.

  18. The phrase points towards the fact that drinking lowers inhibitions. While its not likely to make someone switch from non-racist to racist for instance. It might make someone admit they don't trust the quality of minority student due to affirmative action in a school context. Its a matter of degrees and the bonding that is caused by drinking together.

  19. It doesn't mean that everything you say drunk is truth. But with inhibitions lowered, second guessing diminished?

  20. I think some of this is the reality that you can't unsay or undo whatever you did do. There's a lot of stuff that we politely keep inside, and that we would always keep to ourselves, and wouldn't do.

  21. So here's an actual police report showing a case of "in vino veritas"...background is, rich guy gets drunk, has a gun on him, does something stupid and then...admits to bribery:

  22. Drunk words can be sober thoughts, but not always. For instance, while sober I would never pee in someone's washing machine so I didn't have to go upstairs.

  23. You're drawing on your personal experience. I wonder have there been any scientific studies about this topic that you're aware of?

  24. I see you gave some deltas and those were pretty much what my arguments would be, but I'd like to address the "beer goggles" part.

  25. See, for me it's not that normally I'd care more about my reputation (or whatever social consequence), but when drunk I'm willing to throw that aside in pursuit of getting laid, but rather that when I'm drunk I just I find everyone to be more attractive. Like, if I were rating people on a scale of 1-10, Drunk Me would consistently rate people several points higher than Sober Me would.

  26. You are just misunderstanding the expression. In vino veritas doesn't mean that everything you do under the influence of alcohol reveals the real you, it means that sometimes, under the influence of alcohol, we can reveal things that we would otherwise hide.

  27. Although a part of you that is suppressed normally most likely comes up while drunk (something I'm not experienced with at all), it would most likely be the similar to rage making someone blind and illogical (something I do have experience with).

  28. I think that perhaps you are looking at it too literally. When people are drunk they certainly aren't their truest self, and can act in all sorts of ways that are out of the ordinary or out of character because their inhibitions are lowered. But I dont think thats what "in vino veritas" is trying to encapsulate. Its not looking at every single thing you do when you have been drinking or how you are overall when drunk. Instead I think its things that are underlying coming up that are either neglected or ignored when sober. I think that its more subtle than maybe your view of it is. I have certainly seen people act in a way that revealed their true character when they were drunk, but they put on a more socially acceptable act when they are sober.

  29. Might be late to the party here, but I would add that we first have to define what the "true self" is. There is no concensus in philosophy nor hard sciences.

  30. Just to add, it's, "[There is] truth in wine," when translated literally. "Drunken words are sober thoughts," is a further bastardization of the phrase. Some scholars look to the original Greek, "En oinō alētheia," when quibbling over the meaning of the phrase. It's often translated much the same as "in vino veritas," but some argue that "alētheia," (disclosure), is better understood as talkativeness than as truth. Regardless, both phrases are used most commonly as, "Drunk people's inhibitions are lowered and they they may, as a result, say something they normally wouldn't have been willing/ meant to."

  31. I agree with the terms “in vino Veritas” and “drunk words are sober thoughts” sometimes but not all the time. When drunk people also barely remember anything, whether it’s a memory, an event that just happened, statements, and feelings. Of course not all of these can be altered when drunk, but I never expect myself to remember things the next morning. With this being said, when people are drunk they may not mean everything they say because they can’t remember all of the context to a certain situation. I agree with both of your different statements and will reside in the middle for this topic.

  32. I think it’s a solid mix, if you’re blackout, you hardly have control of motor functions. That being said, you MOST DEFINITELY say things you want to say sober while drunk, that’s why you hit on the hot person, tell someone off, or give out more compliments, you’ve dropped your walls. You can also get caught up in the moment, say things you don’t mean, etc. BUT at the end of the day, you say that shit, so that is how you feel. I won’t forget if you start insulting me and try and patch it up with “I was drunk” nah nah nah nah nah idgaf you said that shit, own up to it.

  33. So the "truth" comes at the emotional level.... you have the capacity to suppress you true emotional state to a certain point, but the booze will bring out the true demeanor you are feeling at that time, and from hour to hour.

  34. I think this cliche is true and not true at the same time. Many people might reveal facets about themselves that were hidden in sobriety. However, alcohol also changes your brain chemistry, so some people (or even the same people) might also do or say things that they don‘t agree with.

  35. If you look at it through the lens of the original Eucharist or Greek kykeon, both of which were spiked with psychedelics, then these wines absolutely delivered a kind of truth. These concoctions were so problematic for the Roman Catholic Church that the Inquisition spent much of its time and energy hunting down anyone with knowledge of how to craft these drinks. I recognize that you are only really speaking about alcohol, but there is a deeper history of wine as a vessel for immortality and truth than just being something to get drunk with.

  36. I don’t think that it means that everything said drunk is said in truth. The simple fact of the matter is that alcohol lowers inhibitions. Inhibitions prevent people from verbalizing sentiments that they otherwise would think better of disclosing. Therefore, many things will be said while intoxicated that would never have been said while sober. This doesn’t mean that every drunk utterance is factually accurate.

  37. The implication is not that alcohol makes everything you say some deep truth. "I'm gonna puke" isn't some deep seated truth, as you said.

  38. We have a tendency to be more honest when drunk because we are inhibited. That does not mean everything we when absolutely shitfaced is true, it means drunk people frequently reveal secrets and are more likely to be honest. I've never heard anyone argue in vino veritas means everything you say while drunk is true, I think you've misunderstood there. In vino veritas simply means people are less likely to conceal the truth and more likely to speak their mind when drunk, which is absolutely true.

  39. Alcohol lowers inhibitions. Things you would normally hold yourself back from doing, or saying, suddenly come tumbling out.

  40. Note that the Latin phrase translates to “In wine there is truth”. It doesn’t mean that drunk people always tell the sober truth. It conveys the fact that drunk people tend to make terrible liars as they lack filtering faculties.

  41. You are 100% correct. I’ve always wondered who these people are who keep massive secrets they only reveal when drunk. The truth is - drunk me is NOT me. Its me under the influence - Plain and simple. I do NOT at ALL truly feel the things I say while drunk. If other people do, great. But not me. Drunk me needs to go home, drink a lot of water and sleep it off. Rejoin reality when I’m sober.

  42. I think you’re half right. You can’t really form a real tangible opinion or thought about something or someone while you’re drunk but what about thoughts and opinions you’ve had for months or years?

  43. Your thoughts aren't necessarily your ultimate opinions. I've thought things before that I've ultimately (after careful reflection) discarded as wrong. Those were still my initial thoughts though. The cliche has truth to it, but it's also a quip that can't accurately describe the breadth human thought v communication.

  44. One of the first functions inhibited from alcohol is the pre-frontal cortex, and lying is a cognitively very expensive function. There's heaps of research to back this up.

  45. I don’t know how I feel on the validity of the statement itself, but I am curious how you can separate holding drunk people responsible for their words from holding drunk people responsible for their actions. It seems to me that your change in view lies somewhere in that investigation.

  46. I feel its not an exact reflection of inner thoughts but general beliefs and attached emotions come out with drunkeness.

  47. I personally feel like, in my own personal experience, with me. IT'S CORRECT. I have gotten drunk and said some stuff (good and bad) that I would never have the guts to say sober. And I've never once regretted it.

  48. I can tell you the way I act when I’m blacked out is not they way I want to act and I don’t know where half the shit I say comes from. Literally never thought it before. I also don’t drink now

  49. Well, it’s true for some of us. I’ve only been drunk about 15 times in my life, but most everything I do and say is just my unfiltered self. Maybe it’s different for some.

  50. There is some truth in questioning 'in vino veritas'. Most likely a mix of both. I think 'in vino veritas' especially applies when you are drunk and alone.

  51. really i think it ultimately means, "Drunk people aren't that good at lying and are frequently less inhibited about sharing secrets"

  52. I agree mostly, except for the people who say that it’s probably true for. That’s why they think it’s true for everyone.

  53. Veritas can change, sometimes just as it escapes the lips, but what the vino reveals is the Veritas of the moment.

  54. Your argument is that being drunk isn’t who you really are. If I take that at face value, this becomes simply, who are you then?

  55. I think you're taking it as an on/off switch. I think it's better to say that since we know the not-drunk you that all the elements of drunk you are also part of you so we uncover a deeper truth because we have access to both. E.G. all the stuff you said tells us a lot more about you than we knew before you were drunk. That's "more true" than the you we have access too without wine.

  56. When I’m drunk I tend to say the truth: that I hate myself, always have, like everyone else does (not their fault, I’m a piece of shit), and that my su1cidal thoughts have become more like plans? But who cares?!?!? It’s all good:):)

  57. Alcohol reduces inhibitions. Literally. At the molecular level ethanol acts on your amygdala, the part of the brain that is responsible for the anxiety response. Some of the consequences of dampened anxiety signaling can include being more social or not feeling shame. And so very frequently there are thoughts or feelings that people hold but would not say out loud because of the anxiety around how others would perceive them. Or there are people that you would hook up with (because hormones and shit) that you don't because the anxiety of how others would perceive you or how you would feel about yourself for whatever reason. That's what drunk words are sober thoughts is about. When you're drunk it's you, totally unfiltered, because the normal mechanisms to suppress the stupid thoughts that everyone has are impaired.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Author: admin