Canadian businesses can charge credit card fees starting Oct. 6

  1. What about online purchases? Under which juridiction does it fall if I live in Qc, but purchase from outside Qc?

  2. Not exactly, they prevent surcharges. You can still offer a discount for cash/debit and produce the same end result. The only difference is that you know what you're paying (or at least know a little better, sales tax aside) from the sticker price.

  3. Ah Quebec. The red headed stepchild of the family of Canadian provinces. Always doing things different from the rest.

  4. That is the crux of the matter. The credit card companies were forcing merchants to pay for your cash back rewards, in such a way that even cash-paying consumers were subsidizing credit card users. So there was, in fact, something unfair about the old system where credit card fees were hidden.

  5. Well, what we, as businesses, need, is not to give the banks up to three, four percent of the entire amount, including the salex tax part, so they can give a small portion back to you for points or a free toaster.

  6. Use debit. These businesses are taking a few points off every sale that a consumer does with a CC. They're now allowed to disincentivize a costly way to do business and still offer a perfectly reasonable alternative in debit/EMT.

  7. No no no, once they are allowed to charge credit cards as a line item, stores will drop their prices by 1 or 2% to compensate. They won't just keep the price the same and pocket the difference. That would be immoral!

  8. Debit fees are reasonably low. CC fees vary and can be very expensive. The current situation is not "cost baked into the price", it's more like debit card users are subsidizing CC users.

  9. I don’t know why your comment isn’t at the top. This is exactly what’s happening. Credit card fees were an expense line item that’s built pricing to ensure a profit at the end. As consumers we should be demanding to see sticker price reductions as a result. But lmao that won’t happen. We will just hear more “record profits”

  10. I’ve been to many gas stations that offered a rebate for cash debit, so does that gap now increase? Or do they stop offering it?

  11. This is a question I have. I travel for work and stay in hotels a lot. I have to use a cc for the deposit and pay with it as well. This will be an enormous expense for me if I have to pay these extra fees.

  12. That's exactly what they want but the reality is I'm not paying 2-3% on top of tax. Credit cards become pointless at that point. No amount of points makes up for the fee's.

  13. When COVID started quite a few businesses used "cleanliness" as an excuse to stop accepting cash. For a lot of people this ruling now means:

  14. I don't get it, really. Handling of cash is so much more costly to the business. The logistics, the risks, the time; it all has a cost to it. That is what makes electronic transactions so attractive.

  15. yeah, that expense has already been added into the price. You can be sure prices will not be coming down to compensate.

  16. I'm not doing business with any company that passes these costs on to me. Similar to how I don't do business with restaurants that tell me to tip 22% to 30% after tax. Vote with your money people.

  17. How about instead of letting consumers or businesses eat these costs, we just cap credit card fees at 1% nationwide?

  18. the only sane comment in this sea of insanity in this thread. soooo many uninformed individuals with the wrong ideas fighting the wrong fight.

  19. If any business tries to make me pay more for spending money at their business, ill leave everything at the til and walk out. The credit card fees have been baked into the prices already, this is just double dipping

  20. Well, to the consumer it’s double dipping but to the business owner it’s trying to level out.

  21. The problem is the super high rewards cards that you can only get if you spend crazy amounts every month. Those cards have higher rewards and thus charge the vendor a higher percentage on the purchase.

  22. Credit card fees (and other transaction fees) are built into prices like the cost of doing business. This is double dipping.

  23. I love the average response by Canadians is an unrealistic "back to cash" instead of fighting against/protesting the problem.

  24. I think “back to cash” is a way of fighting back. Credit cards have been so ubiquitous that businesses have forgotten the costs and troubles associated with cash.

  25. Once you accept that the average Canadian is passive and docile and won't protest this, you can realize just why we're so fucked when it comes to literally everything. Telecomm, credit cards, etc.

  26. So essentially all the benefits of using a credit card “ie, the points or cash back” are eaten up by these fees, so there‘s no reason to use them anymore?

  27. I buy everything with a credit card (haven't once paid interest in my life) just to get the cashback rewards.

  28. How does this work with pre-authorization payments, Im probably just going to start carrying cash now, I can't afford another 2% tax or more than likely stop using those businesses

  29. But it's not a tax and we really need to stop refering to it as such. It's a fee. Governments collect taxes whereas private enterprise charge fees.

  30. OK, back to cash then. Buying things during Covid (2020-2021) got me using my credit card a lot more, but I'm quite happy to go back to paying for things in cash again.

  31. According to the article that's the very reason this happened. Covid made everyone use credit cards which cost merchants a lot of money.

  32. I think in some instances it's okay. Like hunting permits here in Quebec, the places that sell them make between 25 cents to a dollar profit per permit. So if someone gets a $500 permit and pays with a credit card, the store ends up losing like $7. Of course a lot of places are gonna abuse this.

  33. Boycott any business that charges the fee. We need to vote with our wallets here so that companies understand the fees are unacceptable. Paying cash will change nothing.

  34. It's funny how they double dip by charging the consumer the intercharges without lowering the prices (1%-3%) and also then the government gives them a $5000 rebate on top of that.

  35. lol before long using cash will have it's own fee, because it's an expense for businesses to manage it and deposit it.

  36. I support a small businesses (or large) right to do what they want, but it's also my right as a consumer to not shop at your store if you're going to tack on an extra percentage to my purchase.

  37. Woops, Sobey's, Loblaws, Walmart, etc all just 'by concidence' (honestly, promise! We dont fix bread prices together or anything...) now charge the fee. Where are you going to get groceries?

  38. Just great now that we're ever more dependent on online retailers to buy what we want. They have us right where they want us.

  39. All of those 'fees' are already 'built into' the price businesses charge. So now, the businesses will not lower the price the same amount THEN post the new charge, they will just add the new charge to the already inflated price.

  40. So the service charge companies have been pricing into their goods since VISA/MasterCard has been a thing, that will go away right? ......... Right?

  41. I notice the article mentions Visa and Mastercard, but not AmEx. Does that mean companies cannot pass on the fees for AmEx purchases?

  42. I think small business owners are the ones that will be big on this. Anything to get more cash and pay less taxes. The government is going to take a bath on this one.

  43. Just increase the price by 2% and don't say it's for credit card use. Ex. People hate to pay $50 for an item and $10 shipping, but if it's priced as $60 with 'free shipping', it makes it more attractive, even though it's identical.

  44. They are allowed to charge a fee, it doesn't mean "every Canadian business is now going to charge fees" lol.

  45. Feels like this will inevitably lead to more people paying with cash and likely lead to more people dodging taxes.

  46. So, basically what this is going to end up doing is negating the benefit of most credit cards in terms of rewards, insurance, etc, as the rate of return is about 2% on average. Mine's higher because I can only redeem toward a new Chev, but this makes regular credit card usage far less appealing, particularly to those who don't need to carry a balance, or much of one.

  47. If your credit card number gets stolen though, the credit card company usually reimburses you without too much trouble, but I’ve always heard that for debit cards, the bank doesn’t care. Thats why I always use credit cards. Is this incorrect?

  48. Yes, it’s incorrect - at least with RBC. I lost my wallet and I never noticed for about 4 hours. (I was busy moving). RBC called me when they noticed unusual activity on my debit card & Visa. I cancelled my cards immediately, filed a police report and filed a report with RBC. Within 5 days, I had all my money back from RBC for all the charges on my debit card & Visa.

  49. That's true as a consumer but not if you are a small business. You have to eat the loss. They won't even go after people who use bad cards and get products delivered to their place of residence.

  50. We are out protesting bullshit covid while we accept crap like this. Business knows people will pay. I'm amazed they don't charge more. This is the type of shit we should be protesting

  51. Increase cash transactions means that businesses have to increase their services around cash handling, such as accounting and security.

  52. So what now? I'm just going to stop using my credit card if businesses decide to charge me to use it. The entire point of me using it is for convenience and not being charged as long as I pay my debt back.

  53. maybe we should be paying "landlord tax" maybe "cost of shipping goods from supplier tax" or every other cost that goes into retail?

  54. Thank god, I hate losing 3% of my jobs because people want Optimum points. Im sure that this will fuck me over anyways when I start getting hit with fees from Rogers and Gas stations or some shit. However, as a small business owner, losing three percent of a job sucks. If you dont offer credit card payment most people will pass on the bid because theyre cash strapped but need the work.

  55. Could someone create a master list of all of the larger businesses that start implementing fees across Canada and then maybe broken down into smaller ones by province?

  56. The real question is back before computers, when credit cards were taken using a rolly thing with carbon copy paper was there a fee then?

  57. Yes there was. Even if MasterCard and VISA forbid these fees in their contract, plenty of stores charged an extra fee, or required a minimum purchase amount such as 30 dollars.

  58. I'm going to lay down the gloves. If a restaurant charges me a 3% credit card fee, I'm going to lower my tip % by an equal or greater amount. If the server doesn't like it, they should speak up to management. Change comes from within.

  59. Just don't go to the restaurant then. Taking out your anger on the waiter who has absolutely nothing to do with this is just a dick move. VISA is a scumbag, don't act like VISA.

  60. Credit card companies and Interac have been nudging us towards a cash-free society for some time. ATMs and bank branches have closing in Australia and the UK. If we don’t use cash we will lose it.

  61. Colleges and Universities are doing this already. They tack on the percentage if you pay by credit card. The piss-off is that during Covid there was NO ALTERNATIVE to personally go a pay your fees and using your debit wasn't always an option either.

  62. The worst part about this is that even if I use cash I'll still get nailed with prices being put up to include fees to hide the fact they're doing it.

  63. Retailers have been passing along credit card fees all-along, but it has been built into the price. Those who didn’t use credit cards that have “points” end up paying for a service they weren’t receiving.

  64. Back in the day you used to be able to pay your visa with your mastercard. Imagine the fees they would incur on each other if all you did was pay one with the other over and over and over again.

  65. I’m ok with mom and pop places not having to pay credit card fees. It’ll make me use my card less too.

  66. Banking in Canada is absurd. Coming from Australia - Canada is so far behind.. I have to pay like 15 dollars a month just to have an account so that the bank I'm with can use my money to make money. Fees and interest charges are absurd here. Want cash? you have to find your specific banks ATM or get charged another fee and now this.. kinda defeats the purpose of any reward or cash back credit cards. As a person who uses CC for everythig but doesnt carry a balance this kind of just makes it... pointless. Back to debit i guess and cancelling all my rewards cards and keeping a $0 annual fee card just to build credit on.

  67. Retailers had been trying to get the government to force credit card companies to lower their fees, so I guess this is a bit of a compromise.

  68. Yeah this is because of a class action lawsuit against Visa/Mastercard. Basically the complaint was that credit card providers were issuing cards with higher transaction fees which are as high as 4.35% and the merchants were not allowed to charge a fee and also were not allowed to refuse cards with higher transaction fees. The end result was a settlement that included allowing all merchants to charge a "credit card fee" to recover some of that extra cost.

  69. In reality, the fees were always baked into the price of the product but my gut says prices aren't coming down anyways.

  70. Meanwhile the Conservatives are fighting against Woke Shit instead of doing shit and saving canadians money

  71. Sounds like another way for the government to get consumers to spend less. As a way to curb inflation and borrowing.

  72. I suspect most will offer a discount for cash/debit. Cash payers have been getting screwed anyway and most are in the bottom tier of income earners. Seems like a fair move to me.

  73. I'm fucking shocked at the attitudes on this. Don't blame the business. Most are working with what, 20% margins? So Visa gets to come in and just take 15% of your bottom line? Don't use your Credit Card anymore!! Fuck Visa. Fuck MC & Amex too. Like their 12.9% interest is fair? Businesses have had to pay these fees for decades, which means WE have been paying them for decades but we just didn't know (or quietly accepted) it's built into the price. Our "Cash Back" or Points systems were directly debited from the company you paid. You took it straight from Joe's Burgers or Jesse's Dressware. It didn't come from Visa or MC's billions in profits. No, no. It came in the form of those 2 and 3% fees. The business is high volume, but margins averaging less than 20%. So even @ 2% Visa was taking 10% of his revenue.

  74. I'm seeing quite a few questions in this thread with incorrect answers. I would advise people to go here and look at the FAQ to see if your question is answered there:

  75. Glad I ain't in Canada anymore for the foreseeable future. They gonna start charging you to breathe next?

  76. I don’t care what side of the political spectrum you are on. I think we can all agree the liberal government needs to go.this outrageous spending and new taxes are making it harder and harder to live

  77. How in the fuck is some "small business association" suing Mastercard and Visa, and them bending over to fuck the consumers a Liberal thing?

  78. This is amazing news! Right now, credit card fees are embedded in prices meaning we all have to pay them whether we use credit cards or not. This fact, combined with, reward points schemes, has allowed credit card companies to essentially tax everyone for years (the fees embedded in prices are about three times higher than the value of the points they give out, 3% vs 1% of purchase value).

  79. Except the fees that are already embedded in the prices aren't going away. They will now just be adding another fee on top of it

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