Am I in the wrong here? Or is this just another case of biphobia? I felt so humiliated after this convo.

  1. Blue is an idiot. "Enabling christian ideologies" is so stupid and assumes so much about other people, that they can't even know (like, if they even come from a place were specific brand X of christianity plays a role).

  2. Agreed. There are lots of things asexuals do discuss, like split attraction models and sex favorability/positivity, frequently. I do feel, however, that the whole world should be better educated about these things as they affect the vast majority of people in some way and would help enlighten others to a much higher degree.

  3. The asexual community came up with the Split Attraction model because people automatically assume asexual = not interested in any type of relationship outside of familial and friendship.

  4. I've never seen an asexual complain about bisexuals knowing and using the split attraction model. I have personally seen how other communities not understanding the split attraction model leads to a lot of gatekeeping and bigotry (i.e. bi lesbians are very controversial in lesbian circles, but not bi ones). It's almost as if other communities should also educate themselves on it, instead of attacking us.

  5. I’m a pastor’s grandkid who almost moved across the world to be a missionary (as in, was actively enrolled in a program, had a placement, and was going to go. Thankfully, I became a raging agnostic instead). I’ve NEVER heard Christians separate sex and romance. In fact, they think it’s the same thing most of the time.

  6. Absolutely this. In the most conservative of Christian churches they are absolutely the same thing. The person who said that is full of shit.

  7. I come from a Catholic background and absolutely agree. Seems like blue doesn’t know what they’re talking about

  8. Usually they don't, but as a sidenote, in medieval times it was more common. For example, romances between monks were a ok and very much Jesus approved love, but sex between monks was a sin.

  9. Agreed. My daughter is bi and used to date boys and girls, but she just couldn't find the romantic attraction with girls. Just friendship and sex, but nothing she felt could ever turn into in love. With boys she feels the friendship, the sexual attraction, and the romantic attraction that could turn into love in time, so she dates straight, but overall finds females much more physically attractive.

  10. I mean Christian ideology does separate romance and sex, but romantic and sexual attraction not necessarily, and just because one does separate them doesn't make it empowering Christian ideology.

  11. Also, even if that were the case, what could possibly be the justification for asexuals’ use of the split-attraction being okay but not anyone else? It’s either possible and okay for sexual and romantic attraction to vary separately, or it isn’t.

  12. I'm curious what they consider harmful about it. I couldn't really say if anyone is in the wrong here when they haven't presented any argument, just a claim.

  13. There was some tumblr discourse about this a while back that I admit swayed me for a while. The argument was basically along these lines: often times, people who would otherwise just identify as fully gay are saying stuff like “I’m a bisexual homoromantic” instead, which is holding them back from embracing their sexuality and community fully, instead it gives them an excuse to hold on to some semblance of straight attraction. I think this idea mostly came from people who realized they were gay after identifying with split attraction for a while. This argument is pretty biphobic when you break it down- It’s the old “this is just a stepping stone” argument all over again. Just because some people use it as a stepping stone doesn’t mean it’s not a legitimate sexuality.

  14. I’m very curious as well. If anyone has insight in why they would think it’s harmful I’d love to know. I’ve always considered the split attraction model as pretty important to being queer, and not just for aro/ace people but for bisexuality as well

  15. I’m with the person in this thread who suggests that Blue is some sort of ex-Christian and has formed counter-ideologies to it, and I’m guessing that may include some form of, ‘ALL Christianity BAD.’ Like, it doesn’t even matter what the substance of the idea is. If it’s linked to Christianity at all, it must be bad and harmful. That said, I still don’t understand how they link the Split Attraction Model to Christian ideology. Split Attraction sounds like the opposite of what I expect from Christian thought.

  16. I think that it can be harmful in the case of someone saying they're bisexual but heteromantic, people who feel this way should definitely examine whether that's coming from a place of internalised homophobia.

  17. An instance that I can think of is someone who is discovering they’re gay/lesbian and asking for advice, and someone says “you sound biromantic homosexual.” That could be harmful because the person might think that they just need to keep trying and haven’t found the right man/woman yet. Otherwise, it’s very helpful descriptor for asexuals to explain their asexuality and for multisexual people to explain how their attraction and relationships work.

  18. Separating romance and sex is absolutely not a Christian thing. The Greeks would like the blue person to please get off their high horse and educate themselves.

  19. People are clearly very much capable of having sex without romance and vice versa, so I don't gte what's weird about this.

  20. For the vast majority of people, sex without romance seems to be totally clear and normal, but romance without sex completely incomprehensible. Like romance was an upgrade of sex.

  21. There are as many ways to experience attraction - in all its forms and nuances - as there are people on the planet. Generally speaking, saying "the way you experience attraction doesn't exist" just doesn't make any sense.

  22. This post was definitely biphobic. I also hate that blue tacked on a condescending smiley face. Where tf is this person getting their information? What is this christian ideology bullshit?

  23. A lot of westerners here. It absolutely is a development of Christian cultural ideals, and puritan philosophies on sex. There’s a difference between Christian theology and Christian culture. I think this would be an example of Christian culture.

  24. It’s biphobic, but it’s really clear to me that they are some form of ex-Christian, and they have developed counter-ideologies to the homophobia of their religion. Their issue isn’t really hatred of bisexuals. It’s some really arcane counter-ideology. The unintended result of this is biphobia which is bad.

  25. What does he mean by 'actually'? This is someone I don't think has ever acknowledged the seperation of romantic and sexual attraction before.

  26. Since when is this Christian? The Ancient Greeks separated love into at least 6 categories. Arabic poetry inspired the Medieval tradition of Courtly Love that emphasized the chivalrous knight exalting a beloved lady; a relationship that went unconsummated.

  27. My boyfriend is bisexual and hetero romantic, and didn't realize that was a thing. When we were talking about it and I explained it he suddenly seemed a lot more comfortable with his identity.

  28. Other people's orientations are not for anyone else to debate period. That being said we've established there's a difference between sexual and romantic attraction, and it's all complicated why police someone else's label if it doesn't hurt anyone?

  29. Wait...since when the fuck has splitting romance and sex been part of christian ideology? I grew up super religious in the conservative/evangelical American south and was taught explicitly that sex and love were so inextricable from one another that that's why you shouldn't have sex before marriage. Blue needs to get informed before they start informing.

  30. I won’t lie I low key felt scared to wear my bisexual shirt at a pride event but I didn’t feel so bad after seeing a few bi flags around. I just don’t like to be analyzed so much I guess

  31. I totally understand that fear. I was hassled by some friends of a friend my husband and I went to the parade with awhile ago. They said stuff about me not really bi because I have a husband, even though I’ve had relationships with women. I still don’t understand why some people in the lgbtq+ community have issues with bisexual people.

  32. As someone on the asexual spectrum: THE SPLIT ATTRACTION MODEL IS FOR ANYONE IT APPLIES TO. Not harmful at all.

  33. I guess I find it weird that they say you can only apply split attraction to asexuals and that it is a Christian ideology. Soooo asexuals all have to be Christian? Or, why? I just feel like they didn't really think it through?

  34. They consider lust a sin though, so they must realise that it's different from romantic attraction because they don't generally consider that a sin.

  35. If this person says that separating sexual to romantic attraction is bad they are being bigoted towards asexual people. Period. Asexual people inherently separate those 2. "It's ok to separate them this way but to separate them this other way is Christian and bad" go suck a load of dicks lmao what an ass

  36. Most people don't know how to separate between sexual and romantic attraction , im bisexual and aromantic ,I have a friend who's asexual and biromantic ,ur def not in the wrong here and ur valid.

  37. I have had several friends who were struggling with whether they’re bi or lesbian; neither had heard of the split attraction model and both of them felt they benefited from me telling them about it. That the split attraction model is harmful to those outside of the ace community is an absolutely bogus claim and I don’t know why it continues to be perpetuated.

  38. I feel like I've struggled with labels because of this type of thinking. I'm technically bisexual because I'm sexually attracted to both men and women, but I say I'm a lesbian a lot of the time because I can't form an emotionally romantic attachment to a man. I don't feel the same way for them as I do for women.

  39. Well, I do have sexual and romantic feelings for both genders, but my feelings are less intense with men. Yeah it is not black and white

  40. As an ace (queer romantic) person and and EX Christian due to the harmful ideologies I'm actually really upset with both of these insinuations. Not only is saying that non ace people using split attraction is harmful BLATANTLY untrue, but It separates us from everyone else, and makes us seem like an "other", a spectacle, abnormal.And on the other side using split attraction is NOT a christian ideology. I don't know where on EARTH they got that from. My split attracton is something most Christians would see as a fault. Saying that the thing that most Christians would see as abnormal and wrong is perpetuating their ideologies, ESPECIALLY with how I've been hurt by their real ideologies because of my identities makes me feel really gross.

  41. I'm Aromantic. But still bisexual. I'm not asexual, just Aromantic. For most people, romantic and sexual attraction is same, whether it be hetero, homo, bi, a, whatever. But most people are also straight. If someone is accepting bisexuality, or even homosexuality, they should accept seperate romantic and sexual attraction.

  42. Blue is stupid, the split attraction model isn't harmful for people who aren't ace, because there are also aro people and people who like in your case do feel both forms of attraction but differently

  43. The split attraction model is controversial, but the commenter has a point that it plays on Christian and western centric philosophies of attraction. Doesn’t mean it’s wrong for you to identify as such, but it does mean that some other cultures don’t view attraction the same way and may be bothered when westerners try to force the distinction. I don’t think you were in the wrong for your original comment, but I understand how people can be bothered by it.

  44. It definitely could be biphobia, but it could also be that the creator (red) doesn’t know/understand that there’s a difference between sexual attraction and romantic attraction.

  45. The Klein Grid offers the possibility for distinctions between romantic/sexual/fantasy as quality of human bisexuality. It can be so many different things.

  46. I’m a bisexual cis woman in a straight-passing relationship. My partner believes he is probably biromantic, but he is heterosexual. He was raised strictly catholic and never really considered that romantic attraction could be separated from sexual attraction. A few years ago, he told me about how he basically fell in love with another man, but he didn’t feel sexually attracted to him - he thought about it a lot, but has never found a penis attractive, so he came to the conclusion that he definitely couldn’t have fallen in love with that guy because he’s heterosexuaI. I mentioned that it’s totally possible that he could have fallen in love without being sexually attracted and that doesn’t mean he’s not heterosexual. Romantic and sexual attractions are definitely not strictly dependent on each other, it’s not black and white imo.

  47. You can definitely be different in romance and sexuality. I like fucking girls and guys but I only wanna actually get into romantic relationship with girls so I’m heteroromantic

  48. There's something really infuriating about the 'I'm not debating, just informing' comment. Also separating romance and sex is not just a christian thing at all? That's literally been a thing since way before christianity was even around. I'm not asexual (but I do consider myself to be demiromantic so maybe that plays a part in this for me) but sex and romance are definitely not the same for me, though they can go together. This person to me seems like they think they know better than you and aren't willing to take any other perspective outside of their own in to consideration, they seem like a very rude person

  49. I don't know who you are in this convo, but I agree with the part of being bisexual and hetero-romantic at the same time, and I truly think sex and love are separate things if not asexual wouldn't feel love and it not the case, that being said, I think that being bisexual and hetero-romantic is complicated, I mean at least for me I don't understand how you can be so sure about not having a relationship with all people forming part of a sex, I personally don't think men and women are that different in the end is more a nurture thing, I think everyone is completely different, so if someone can be attracted to someone I don't see how you couldn't fall in love, but thats just me

  50. In neither of those situations are you wrong. Your sexuality and identity are 100% valid. Being bisexual and homoromantic at the same time are perfectly fine and normal! So is Being biromantic and homosexual! My boyfriend would likely identify himself as bisexual but heteromantic. Split identities are valid! Please don't feel humiliate. You responded so well in those scenarios, all you can do is hope they decide to be more accepting and loving in the future! 🤟 Happy pride, beautiful human!

  51. Separating romance and sex is Christian...... So me having a friend with benefits is Christian because I'm fucking them and we're not romantically involved? Got it.

  52. I also wanna add my own two cents from personal experience: The split-attraction model helped me fully and comfortably identify as bisexual - or anything at all, really. Because I realised it's fine that I was uniterested in sex with boys/men and hadn't had a crush on a girl/woman, I could still be bi. Eventually it started to even out a bit, but my attraction is still very split with more sexual attraction to women and more romantic attraction to men. If I'm not allowed to ID as bi there's not even a label for me, especially as a kid and teenager. What box would they want me in? Lesbian who doesn't fall for women? Was I aromantic even though I had romantic feelings for guys? It's nonsense.

  53. You are so correct its not funny. People need to realize that sexual attraction and romantic attraction are two different things. I myself helped a friend figure out that they were biromantic but heterosexual, and im certain my attractions dont go the same way either.

  54. Personally I(M20) am sexually attracted to both but not romantically attracted to men. It’s not up to others to decide what to label you as or say what you can and can’t do. That’s all up to you. This is just blatant biphobia.

  55. No one has any authority to tell you how you define yourself. As long as you’re not willfully disrespecting what the label means, then you’re in the clear by me.

  56. No it's biphobia. There are times where I'd feel bisexual, but heteroromantic. Idk if I still feel that way, but C'est la Vie

  57. Romantic and sexual attraction are certainly separable and different. And too be honest christian ideologies more so emphasize that they are inseparable. Your identity is perfectly valid!! Unfortunately another case of bi erasure is around every corner..

  58. As a Hindu I've heard the same version of "Oh you're not Christian but I am so you'll follow my rules on the internet that belongs to everyone." American Christians are, sadly, very much like this. Not all of them, but enough of them to make you feel disgusted

  59. They're wrong. Your final response was much more restrained than they deserved, but probably for the best; when someone's head is that far up their third point of contact, they're not hearing much.

  60. Can I get a quick rundown here because I'm kinda lost. You are attracted to both male and females, however you only want relationships with the same sex?

  61. I’m also Bi and it’s tiring have to defend your sexuality I feel like Bi people are always discounted a lot of the times and it kinda sucks :/

  62. Isn’t it fun how people like to show up and tell you how much they know about shit they don’t know? As a broad matter, I think there are a lot of people who think they’re on “our side” meaning the side of LGBTQ people who bring some big ideological stick into whatever they’re talking about. Human sexuality, biology, and psychology are complex, maybe your cute little worldview you cooked up after twenty minutes reading third hand philosophy doesn’t qualify you to tell people what it’s ok to feel. Also… just generally fuck off?

  63. As a bi woman I am physically attracted to both men and women however I’m not romantically attracted to women, at least as far as I know. I married my high school sweetheart who is a man so I never had the chance to develop feelings for a female.

  64. Blue and Red are both idiots. Bi = attraction to 2 or more genders. Since there are more genders than man and woman and the genders that surround them, it is entirely possible to be bi and not attracted to either men or women.

  65. Ughhhhhhhhhh no you're not wrong. I have to explain often how I'm typically hetroromatic but i enjoy sexual connections with fem people. I have been in romantic relationships with women and NB people but more often then not i end up dating a masc person.

  66. Anyone who says "i'm not debating, just informing" is engaging in bad faith. They're basically saying that they don't want to hear and aren't going to consider any valid points or reasons they might be wrong. It's essentially saying "i'm right, listen to me" and then sticking their fingers in their ears.

  67. sexual attraction and romantic are 2 different things, you can be bisexual and homoromantic, because they are separate forms of attraction.

  68. There was a whole uproar on tiktok a while back about a viral video of someone who called themselves a lesbian but had sex with men bc they were horny. You can’t win as anyone with any sort of bi(sexual or romantic) leanings. You say you’re bi sexual homoromantic, people tell you you’re a lesbian like is happening here. You ID as a lesbian because you only see yourself romantically with women, but you fuck men occasionally, people tell you you’re bi.

  69. I Mean, Yeah, If You're Not Actually Attracted To Men You're Not Attracted To Men, But If You're Sexually Attracted To Men Then You Are Actually Attracted To Men, Regardless Of If You Are Romantically. Works In Reverse Too. I'm Demiromantic, So While I'm Sexually Attracted To Tonnes Of People I'm Romantically Attracted Very Few People, Only Ones I've Already Known For A Good While. That Doesn't Mean I'm Asexual Or Something Due To Being Not Romantically Attracted To People, That'd Be Utterly Daft.

  70. The separation of sexual and romantic attraction isn’t a Christian conception. That person is a dumbass. You are 100% in the right here and you shouldn’t be feeling humiliated for standing up for what’s right.

  71. Im bisexual and heteroromantic, blue is an idiot. You are what you are. Fuck religion in this context, not important.

  72. I've noticed people tend to group romantic and sexual attraction together, when usually that's just not the case.

  73. "Separating romance and sex are Christian idealogies" umm no? This is the opposite of (most) Christian teaching, which is that you can only have sex with a person you marry.

  74. Romance and sex being intertwined is a rare thing in history. Sex is usually just tied to marriage. There were cultures where it happened but love matches were not the norm and not even the ideal in most cultures across history. It is only in the last few centuries that choosing your own spouse became prevalent and only the last century that dating multiple people before potentially choosing a spouse became a thing. It is not tied to Christianity at all really.

  75. No, you're not wrong. As other people have stated the asexual and arosexual communities overall don't care if allosexual and alloromantic people use the split attraction model. You'll surely find some ace and aro people who get upset about it, but the overall discourse I've seen within the community supports allo people using it. Ace and aro people aren't a separate species, ffs.

  76. Such an off the wall conversation. Wait until this person learns that queer Christians exist ☠️ their tiny mind might explode

  77. 'Don't tell people they should not kill, you're propagating/endorsing a christian ideology a.k.a 'you shall not kill'.

  78. Idk all of the specific labels are a lot to keep up with and seem so arbitrary. You can be bisexual and not have a 50/50 attraction. You can be bisexual and not prefer women romantically without all of these labels and specifications, Christ almighty guys. I'm sorry but its just like..... the constant need to find a box to fit into worries me. Its like paranoia level at this point. The second you feel like you stray from the "norm" even a little bit, you've invented some other way to see yourselves. And when you can't find a term, its absolute pandemonium and insecurity!!!! We all need to be okay with who we are, as fluid human beings experiencing many different variations of attraction. You are so much more than all of these boxes you keep putting yourselves into.

  79. This is ridiculous. If anything, aren’t they the ones who say you CAN’T have sex outside of marriage? Also how is it harmful!? So many questions

  80. yeah, no. blue reeks of no idea what they're talking about. you're fine. I'm so tired of people telling other people how they identify

  81. I mean, I'm Bi/Pan. But I don't really 100% understand the idea of split attraction either. But I also don't care if others identify that way.

  82. Nah, very much bisexual, heteroromantic, I have an extremely hard time finding males attractive in a sense that I want to be romantic with them.

  83. If you're the user who's blacked out (not the blue one) then nope, no worries, you're not in the wrong!

  84. I don't understand this philosophy. It's easiest to say I'm Bi. I'm not, not really. Gender plays no role in my preference. I've crushed on Enbies and Trans, men and women, gay and straight and all the colors of the alphabet mafia rainbow flag. I'm attracted to the spark in the human and that's it.

  85. Sexuality is a spectrum. Words like bisexual exist to help us better understand where we fit on that spectrum. Anyone can use any term that they feel fits them best. It's that simple.

  86. Lol. Split attraction theory being Christian ideology. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Christians are too concerned with trying to murder us to be progressive enough to even think of something like split attraction theory. 100% bigotry.

  87. I will be honest, I agree with blue belief-wise. But I also think that anyone who says "not debating, just informing :)" about issues that are far from settled is a complete arsehole.

  88. Why would non-asexual people having a split attraction model be harmful to people who are asexual? If you’re homoromantic but bisexual then that’s just what you are, you can’t force yourself to be completely bisexual/biromantic just because someone doesn’t think your sexuality is right? That’s not how sexuality works.

  89. Yes I agree with this. You can be bisexual, but have a stronger attraction, whether physical or sexually, to either sex.

  90. People aren't paying enough attention to how stupid the red response is too. If you're bisexual, but not biromantic, you're still attracted to men, so it's a completely pointless response.

  91. I believe everyone has 4 sexualities. Irl romantic, irl sexual, fantasy romantic, and fantasy sexual. They are all slots that should be filled. Mine are pan, women-oriented(my gender makes it complicated), ace, and pan

  92. Not necessarily biphobia, they might just not understand concept of homoromantic. Some people are homophobic and some are just new to concepts because haven't been familiar with further concepts of sexuality.

  93. You were perfectly valid in want you said. What you feel sexually and romantically can be different and there is nothing wrong with it.

  94. How the hell os it a Christian thing? Sometimes, I just wanna bang one out with another person. Sometimes, it’s a mood. Sometimes, I like the person.

  95. "I'm not debating I'm informing" means "I'm not willing to be wrong so even if I were presented with other information I will ignore it".

  96. I could be off the mark here, but Blue seems to be following the "LGBT exclusionist" dogma popular in some parts of tumblr, twitter and other social media, largely among LGBT (but mostly LG) gen z-ers. Basically this line of argument is that you can only be part of the "LGBT community" if you are literally lesbian, gay, bi or transgender (sometimes nonbinary is included as transgender, sometimes it isn't), and no other labels serve any purpose except to confuse and divide people. They also tend to be really cutesy and condescending for no reason IME. Basically they are saying that they don't think asexual-related theory and terminology belong in the the LGBT community because they don't think asexual or aromantic people belong in the community.

  97. Ace biromantic person here- blue is a little confused? I don’t see any harm in separating romance and sexual attraction because it does not apply to just asexual people. My friend is aromantic pansexual, so it doesn’t really matter.

  98. I think that’s a pretty common feeling among bisexual women… sexual attraction to both genders but more romantically inclined towards other women… sexual attraction as I understand it is more physiological, whereas romantic is more emotional and psychological… I’m Demi so I don’t fully understand how it works for allos, but this is what I’ve come to understand.

  99. I think we, as bisexual people, should listen to lesbians about this and then do our research. There is no absolute truth on most of these matters, we can all have our opinions but I think the kinder we are with each other, and the more we try to communicate rather than impose our opinions, the better off we are as a community. It's futile to spend all this energy on in-fighting.

  100. I’m the person with the black PFP, not the creator, btw. Am I still in the wrong? Do you mind explaining a little?

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