Rings of Power making me appreciate WoT season 1 more...

  1. Biggest positive I can say about WoT show is that my fiance is an avid reader, but had never read fantasy before. She is now on book 8 and credits the show. I loved cuddling up on the couch with her while we were both reading WoT.

  2. Best thing I can say about the show is that it prompted my library to get the Wheel of Time e-audiobooks, so I could re-listen to the series while running, driving, cooking dinner, etc.

  3. I started reading WoT because I watched the show and heard the books were SO much better - and I am also on book 8! Happy reading to your fiancé!

  4. My husband and I too! He had read the first three when the show aired and I watched with him - even went to the LA fan premiere with him and his brother who is a huge fan. I loved it and we finished all the books in about 6 months after the first season of the show aired. It’s so fun to have this shared interest - we talk about WoT all the time and we’re both excited for season 2 of the show. The way the show was done got me really interested in the story and I’m super grateful.

  5. Same here. My wife has never read fantasy. I’ve been trying to persuade her to read WoT for 5 years. She finally picked it up after season 1 ended. She’s been busy with our baby, so she only made it TDR, but makes a comment every few weeks that she needs to get back to them. Hopefully as we move through season 2 she will realize that she needs to start TSR before season 3.

  6. That's about the only good thing I can think that came from the show is that it introduced me to the books 😊

  7. I hope one day i get the same. My wife doesnt reads much fantasy too. Convinced her to start reading some Sanderson (Reckoners series), so far so good. One day, tho, i hope she gets to the WoT train. A man can dream.

  8. I watched the WoT series again recently, and thought it was better than my first time watching it. I'm a little disheartened after watching RoP though. The sets, the battle scenes, the magic... all are way better than WoT to me.

  9. Given how much larger the RoP budget was, and no covid issue, their stuff Should look better. It would be sad if it didn’t. But, the WoT budget is high enough that I’m expecting improvements in the visuals for s2, no doubt.

  10. It’s the attention to detail for me. The Peter Jackson films and Weta workshop created a whole visual language that the RoP series just needs to pick up and continue.

  11. The one thing I'd note is that the stuff from the first two books isn't really all that... Epic.

  12. Same I'm rewatching it with my friend who is on TDR right now. He hates it since he just got so attached to every one. I'm enjoying it a lot more the second time.

  13. That's fair. RoP definitely looks better visually, and the fight scenes are mostly better choreographed than WoT. I'm really just talking about the characters, which to me are more important for enjoyment.

  14. Yeah how is RoP so polished, yet WoT looks like a fucking bargain renaissance fair? I mean, both stories are terrible because they're both fan-fiction-level drivel, but could we at least get some better costumes? And the cinematography of RoP is gorgeous. WoT, not so much.

  15. I was gonna say, having watched both and being fans of both, I know I think, and I thought consensus was aligned, is that ROP was far superior to WOT

  16. Apparently basically everything they had planned for that episode was made imposible due to covid restrictions, Barney Harris leaving, filming locations becoming unavailable and stunt men becoming unavailable. Most of the trolloc crew were off the board and they werent allowed to do crowd scenes, which is why everyone is awkwardly far apart in most of the scenes.

  17. This 100%. I was actually vocally defensive of the show and made excuses for some of the more frivolous changes… until that finale.

  18. My wife absolutely loved Wheel of time and even rewatched it a second time. She is not a book reader. She made it through the first episode of Rings of Power and has shown no inclination to watch any more. It bored her out of her mind.

  19. My wife also loved the show (didn't read the books). We've watched it three times. I realized that a lot of the stuff I wasn't fond of in the show was very meaningful and important for those who haven't read the books. It's the way for viewers to start to get immersed in the world.

  20. Ya I think you're right. I think it's easy to forget here on our internet echo chamber that most of the audience for either show isn't familiar with source material, so the show has to stand on it's own. I think WoT does a better job of just being an enjoyable TV show than RoP does. But, of course, that is just a subjective reflection of taste.

  21. The best thing about the WoT show is it got me to start reading the series and I am now on book 8 and loving it. I think some of the best moments of the show were the quieter parts where characters were allowed to breath. I personally love the lanterns scene in episode 1 and the description of the way of the leaf in episode 3 or 4.

  22. Ya that lanterns scene, where Tam is talking about the Wheel, gives me goosebumps. I've watched that scene like 8 times, and it's still so powerful.

  23. Rings of Power is baffling in how drastically the quality varies from episode to episode and from scene to scene. With Wheel of Time, the difference in budget shows and it feels very workmanlike by comparison, but it also feels much more cohesive and has a cast with stronger chemistry. For me, each episode of Wheel of Time was like a new Star Wars movie, in that mentally I was racking up a list of complaints a mile long, but emotionally I was invested from start to finish.

  24. I'm going to have to agree with that. I absolutely love the WoT books, but the show was just adequate for me. I still want to watch it, but it certainly isn't anywhere near what I had hoped for.

  25. Disagree completely. ROP is what happens when you throw a massive budget at a showrunner and expect the IP to do the work for you.

  26. Yeah, watching RoP did the opposite to me than OP: it made me lament what we could've had in WoT. Everything in both RoP and HotD is just worlds better than WoT. I still remain hopeful a season 2 can save it (sort of the way I felt The Expanse was too slow in season 1 but became one of my favorite shows thereafter), but we shall see.

  27. Couldn't disagree more, how much I've enjoyed Rings of Power has just made me angry that Wheel of Time was done so much poorer. Both in how it looks and how it was written.

  28. Same. Rings of Power has made me dislike WoT even more because it shows Amazon is perfectly capable of producing a high quality fantasy show that's at least good across the board.

  29. If you were expecting an unproven series to get the same line of credit that a proven series like LOTR does, that says more about unrealistic expectations from you than from Amazon.

  30. I quite enjoyed the WoT show. As a reader of the books though, I'm incredibly frustrated they went and are going such a different route but I can't stop be entertained by it. The world, the characters, they're all still there. I just have to accept that it's a different story in the end.

  31. I'm currently rewatching as well and finding I'm liking it more than first time round. Still a number of things that annoy me but overall it's pretty damn good.

  32. One of the biggest differences I've noticed is how much storytelling they managed to cram into WoT, while every single episode of RoP has to have a super slo-mo battle or fight scene to slow majestic music that just feels like filler to me, especially after so many. I've gotten to the point I'm tuning them out.

  33. I am going to be downvoted for this but I think the exact opposite. in the making of the WOT series they went out of their way to make a tv series following the basic three act structure as you would in a normal tv show. This mean “Sanderson’ing” some of the characters. I like Sanderson but his characters do not really have GRR Martin levels of depth. Thus we have seen complete character arcs in one episode where it should be stretches out over more. To fit the three act structure (of normal traditional tv shows) they cut away a lot of what the showrunner thought was optional. That sometimes led to small changes that will have massive knock on effects in the rest of the series. I am not always sure they have completely considered what the changes will do in the long run. They are in effect using the old “soft magic” trick and will mcguffin their way out a tight spot somewhere in the future (which is very unlike Sanderson that codifies everything). The RoP series on the other have not fallen (mostly) in this trap and should not be seen as single episodes and they do not seem written that way. That means story and character arcs do not have to fit into one episode and the whole series should be seen as one story and not episodic adventures with a serilased back story. Galadriel being so bloody minded about hunting down Sauron is all in character for an elf and someone that has spent the last 2k years in a war. Thus you are not going to see quick movement in both story or character in this apart from the odd human where we are seeing some movement in both motivation and development. The time to let the characters breathe and slowly get into their story has been allowed and I feel more connected to some of the characters than I have for WoT where it fwlt rushed. I know this is very mich both budget and show runner clout related but I still feel disappointed after almost every episode of WoT. I am not sure I will watch WOT series 2 even though I have read the books about 5 times. I am definitely hooked on the RoP though and will keep on. For those of you moaning that its too slow maybe read a bit of Tolkien and then be relieved that we have been spared ten minutes of dwarven songs in every episode.

  34. I posted before I read this, but you said exactly what I wanted to say, you just said it better than I did. Kind of like you're the RoP writer, and I was the WoT writer. Lol.

  35. Thanks for your well-articulated thoughts! Hopefully you won't be downvoted for your opinions because you were respectful and showed good reasoning beyond the typical "Grrr it's different than the books and I'm mad".

  36. I was really happy with the show but the last episode or two kind of left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I'm going to give season 2 a fair shake, and I think it'll be even better budget and quality wise, but I'm trying to temper my expectations as well. I think in a vacuum, the show is pretty damn good, but it's not a great adaptation. I was fine with almost all of the changes up until the last episode or two at Fal Dara, when it seemed like they went out of their way to (and I say this as someone who considers themselves very left-leaning and progressive) give all of the big moments to women while the men are effectively useless. Again, I'm not complaining about "woKenEsS" or anything like that, it just seemed really heavy-handed to me.

  37. All of the covid restrictions just killed them towards the end of WoT's first season. I said this elsewhere in this thread but I wish they could redo the final episode so we could see what they intended, not what they were allowed scrape together due to covid.

  38. cant see past the ridiculous changes to the story/characters to be honest...I will still watch the second season, but can't say I'm really excited...I don't even know when its coming out and don't particularly care to look it up...such an easy storyline to follow, especially season 1 and how they changed it is beyond me

  39. I feel similarly after watching both shows. The number one thing WoT has going for it for me at this point, is that when I watch the show I can see the characters I know and love. Even when the story reshuffles plot elements, for the most part the character still talks and behaves in a way that fits with what I’d expect. (Lan and Mat are probably the ones I’m most hesitant about but I know they had some issues with Mat’s actor at the end, plus dagger Mat is different anyway so a bit willing to extend some grace there into season 2) Even the way smaller characters like Ila, Valda, Liandrin, Alanna, came to life could be really fantastic and caught my attention. Because of that, I definitely look more fondly at the WoT show despite the various issues and problems.

  40. I had several major gripes about the WOT show of course. But I have been discussing ROP and HOD recently, and I agree with this assessment regarding both. They have sky high production values but neither has gripped me in any way. There isn’t a character in either series that I can honestly say I feel “strongly” about or am rooting for.

  41. Loved your post; I remember being so excited for the first episode and at least that first night I remember Reddit being mostly negative about it. For anything I don’t like about WOT on Prime I just headcannon that it’s not Thom telling us the story so whomever it is got some details wrong. It’s fun to have a different version of the same world I grew up in with new stories.

  42. I have trouble criticizing most of the WoT show because I know how absurdly difficult their production was, for reasons entirely outside their control.

  43. I agree. While I do enjoy RoP, and its production values obviously blow WoT out of the water, I think WoT is generally better written and better paced, and probably just more entertaining for a wide audience (see the respective RT and IMDB scores). To mention a few things:

  44. Yep I totally agree. It seems like the writers of WoT are more experienced storytellers. There are clear goals and motivations for characters, and each individual episode is a more satisfying experience.

  45. WOT s1 made me skeptical of RoP and I haven’t worked up the courage to watch what they’ve done yet. You would think with soo much money they’d hire decent writers for either project.

  46. RoP is a very expensive pile of "Meh". I still find it better than WoT, though, as the sets, camera work, costumes, coreography, even acting for the most part, and CGI (excluding the horrid animation of the Warg) all worked better and more seamlessly than in WoT.

  47. I like both shows. WoT was disappointing with the huge story changes in the last episode. My biggest problem with RoP is that they never call anyone by name in the scenes so I have to look up what these peoples names are. Halbrand? Bronwyn? *shrug*

  48. Man I completely agree. ROP is so mind numbingly boring. Like some of the fight scenes are good and that’s about it. It has better set pieces and special effects, but that’s all it has going for it.

  49. I much prefer ROP to WOT series. I thought WOT was awful and won’t be continuing with it, whereas I am always looking forward to the next ROP episode

  50. Feel exactly the same. And as you said, once the emotions of the first has settled, a second viewing of WOT is definitly enjoyable, despite its shortcomings. Even looking forward to the second one tbh.

  51. I completely agree! Even with the stuff that pissed me off in the show, it was never boring. RoP feels boring and I don't care about any of the characters except the Harfoot people.

  52. The difference here is that The Rings of Power is not really adapting a story. Sure, there is plenty of lore about the time period they are set in (which they seem happy to mostly toss aside, though to be fair, they probably don't have the rights to much of said lore), but no real written story to adapt. So it is very much a poorly written fanfic, or their own fantasy soap opera that they paid through the nose to adorn with Tolkien's names and places.

  53. I've learned over the months to accept episodes 1-7 of WoT. I still have some issues but I can enjoy it. Episode 8 though I have to burn with fire. Covid and Matt's actor leaving only excuses a few elements of this episode.

  54. I've got a huge backlog of movies, TV shows, and video games, but I managed to get through the first episode of Rings of Power after it premiered. Maybe it's because I'm not a big Lord of the Rings fan--other than The Hobbit, the entire franchise (books, movies, etc) has never been that compelling to me--but it just doesn't seem that great.

  55. I totally agree, rewatched a couple of episodes after struggling with RoP, and apart form production values it's a much better show. It's less "generic fantasy", dialogue is less basic, characters are not so trope-ish. No campy slow motions and ridiculously "epic" pumping soundtrack to underline frankly not so epic moments. WoT still has many problems, but it is a better show overall.

  56. This comment reads like a list of common complaints from the series, and, like I mentioned in my original post, I'm not really interested in addressing or defending any of them. If you aren't invested in the characters, I won't try to change your mind. All I'm trying to say is that I AM invested in the characters.

  57. Ha, I was just saying the other day the the dumpster fire that is Rings of Power is making me appreciate WoT more.

  58. I'm inclined to agree. ROP is kind of big, dumb, turn-your-brain-off fantasy for me. The WoT show had its problems, but most of its big moments felt a bit more earned, and like you said, the characters felt more relatable.

  59. Funny, for me it’s the other way around. With how bad the WoT show was, it makes me appreciate that while RoP isn’t that good, it’s not a complete dumpster fire. Without WoT in hindsight setting the low bar, I probably would’ve dropped RoP already.

  60. Both series suffer from absolutely atrocious writing. Much of RoP is nonsensical. This last episode used a MacGuffin that was as bad or worse than Rise of Skywalker. But at least WoT had a roadmap for general plotlines and progression (i.e. the books). Where they stayed with those, the series wasn't too bad. Where they digressed from that, it was pretty awful. Up until the last two episodes, I generally rated each episode higher on my second watch than the first. But only two of them I would have considered good. The last episodes I couldn't rewatch at all they were so disappointing.

  61. I am way in the other end of this. The Characters in WoT only had life to me while I was still reading their character from the books into them. My wife had not read them and pointed out how flat they were. Never changing, barely emoting, and making no actual sense in motivation. I saw those things because of the books, not because of the series.

  62. I'm sorry you feel so strongly about the show. I hope someday you can find something else that replaces the happiness that it stole from you.

  63. WoT had the stronger start for sure...the first 4 episodes really felt like something was happening. There was momentum, our protagonists were in danger. But the back half of the season dragged it way way down. Too much plodding about the DR identity, too long spent in TV biding time, not enough establishment of the villain or the season finale stakes, and far too much "tell" and too little "show".

  64. Interestingly, i had the exact opposite experience. I heaved a huge sigh of relief when RoP was at least trying to stick to the lore. I mean, obviously the timeline is wildly condensed, but i can understand that because they want it to fit into a relatively short show and don't want to cover several thousand years of Sauron slowly chipping away at the alliances between the three races. They made up a bit of lore, but nothing egregious, and i actually enjoy this hot-headed take on Galadriel.

  65. They might be better written but WoT butchered most of the characters in my opinion. So much so that it will snowball into them only resembling the original characters in name and appearance alone. I’m glad the show exist to give the books more exposure but man have they already screwed the pooch.

  66. I think they both suck but visually Rings of Power looks at minimum twice as good. The orcs alone absolutely dump all over the trollocs. That isn't even getting into the set pieces or costumes of the main cast.

  67. Neither show is particularly good. I guess ROP is average if I’m being generous. The compression of the timeline is very irritating. Where is Galadriel’s husband? Why do the elves all look so crappy (and don’t tell me that made up crap about the light going out and mithril will fix it - that’s not Tolkien), why do we have Isildur alive before the rings were crafted? Very irritating.

  68. It hurts, to lower your expectations to daytime TV standards. But we didn't have to do that with Lord of the Rings because we got the movies*, so there doesn't really seem any need to do so now. Whereas with The Wheel of Time we had no other option.

  69. I am halfway through current HoD eps but caught up with RoP. I like RoP more so far. There are flaws in both for sure.

  70. Well, idk anything about rings of power, but I know we always can say "well, this is a different turn of wheel than the books, the same core core story but that can be different" we were told this many times on the books, but I don't know if Tolkien's books have a similar interpretation that (unintentionally) gave us a way to accept changes between the show and books.

  71. WoT had a YA feel to it that is not so present in RoP (maybe just in the Isildur storyline). So it is logical that some part of the audience feels disconnected from the characters.

  72. I think it also seems non readers like the show and the shows character development. From my perspective it is just readers used to Jordans high standards that have issues.

  73. The best character in rings of power is the dark elf... The rest of them all suck or are middling. I'm really really interested in his story the rest I don't really care.

  74. The problem with WoT was how they had this amazing story to follow and decided to significantly alter it. My dad saw the show and decided to pick up the books after I told him they were better. He’s done with all 15. He loved the books. He’s mad at the show now.

  75. Tried S1 again and immediately gave up when I was reminded what a clusterfuck it all was. Triggered at seeing the dark timeline Cauthons.

  76. The WoT series is far superior to RoP, I would give RoP maybe a 3/10 so far, has been dreadfully boring and inexplicably bad writing that makes WoT look like Citizen Kane in comparison despite its flaws.

  77. Rings of Power, despite being awful, is still a million times better than s1 of WoT. Unwatchable, shittily written and acted with bad effects, honestly seemed like a massive piss-take.

  78. I'm going to give WoT another watch after I finish Rings of Power (currently have seen the first 4 episodes.) But so far, the scale is so far in favor of RoP, imo, that it's not even a contest.

  79. Each of the main characters feels compelling to you? Seriously? I’m on my third re-read of the books right now (about done with LoC) and I thought, while the season had its major faults, it was still enjoyable for the most part. However, I would never call the characters well done. Rand, the freaking MC, was almost nonexistent the entire series because the show runner was playing too much on the “I wonder who the Dragon Reborn is” angle. They also stole his thunder (literally that and lightning) which was supposed to be the first real glimpse of his power, and frivolously gave it to the women. Don’t get me wrong, it was entertaining and I will be watching S2, but I would never say they did the characters correctly.

  80. My problem with the WOT was not that they strayed from the storyline, although I would argue that would have made the show infinitely better. My problem is the severe lack of direction any of the characters have. The acting is choppy and the story they’re trying to tell feels extremely rushed. I’m have admittedly high standards, but I want more than CW caliber production from one of the most sprawling epic fantasies ever written.

  81. Have you read the wheel of time series? I didn't hate the show, but it was not very good. Casting was all over the place, the lore was butchered and the pacing and story was meh.

  82. I'm glad I do not know as much about RoP as WoT because I am enjoying RoP. WoT enrages me. Still going to watch it though

  83. I actually really love the Rings of Power. Episode 6 reminded me quite a bit of The Shadow rising. That also made me a little bit pissed off considering Amazon did such a good job with the Rings of Power but has fumbled so hard with the Wheel of Time.

  84. Ffs. I left the Lotrmemes subreddit because I can’t cope with all the negativity towards ROP over there. It’s a perfectly fine show. It’s perfectly entertaining. Is it perfect? Nope. Were the original films? Nope. Were the Hobbit films, nope. But now everyone over there has their panties in a twist. Lotrmemes isn’t fun anymore. Don’t bring that negativity over here too.

  85. All I see when I watch Rings of Power is how many people there are, that weren't there for WoT Season 1. I don't know if it was a money issue, or a pandemic issue. I hope it is the latter, so we can hope to see more extras, more cast, more people to fill out the world.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Author: admin