Would you rather have a toxic top frag who was a terrible team player, or have a chill bottom frag who was a great team player?

  1. Holy smokes... If your Reyna played spawn every round and you were in a bronze lobby, I was likely the Phoenix on the opposite team that called him on his bs when he complained to us about how terrible his team was. That Reyna was top frog for his team but did NOTHING to help the team and just cried about how terrible they all were. I pointed out what the Reyna was doing, and when he said he wasn't, I ulted into spawn and shot him in the face as the last kill of the game. I felt truly bad for the rest of that team that tried so hard and had to put up with it...

  2. Every Reyna I've played w is like this. Always baiting the team ofr kills never entry always lurking always playing away from the team. They top frag on the team but barely go positive. Never played w a Reyna that didn't do this.

  3. This also sounds familiar from a comp game last night I played. I was the KJ and reported his ass, as did my friend who was the Reyna on our team.

  4. It’s important to note, every team has a top frag, and every team has a bottom frag. A team player is worth more than someone who’ll get one or two picks before dying at the end of the round, because even if the team player is doing badly kills wise, chances are they’re helping your team win rounds with util

  5. To help prove this point as well: I've won games where nearly every one of my teammates had negative KDRs. Sometimes gamesense > KDR.

  6. And I think this totally goes unseen. I think being a team player provides a lot more value than a toxic top frag who is only providing value in kills.

  7. I won four out of five placement matches just by being annoying as hell with utility. Either kayo and forcing openings or cypher holding site slowing down a push giving my team time to rotate. It’s honestly really fun annoying the enemy team with traps and smoke.

  8. I’d prefer to lose twice than play one game with someone’s toxic ass regardless of winning or losing.

  9. One of my friends is a controller player and even though she bottom frags in pretty much all of our games between the 4 of us, the fact that we have a guaranteed smokes player wins us so many more games!

  10. Even with that, I think I'd rather have a non-toxic bottom frag than a toxic top frag. Just because I'd rather there be fewer toxic people in the game.

  11. The thing is. Going 18-16 as reyna isn’t “impressive.”And I think these players forget that... Look up the Dunning Kruger effect. There will always be a better reyna player than the egotistical top frag reyna yet they get all of their dopamine from going barely positive as arguably the easiest agent to consistently frag each round with.

  12. I mean shes not the easiest agent to get kills with, her blind is used most of the time for info bc they can shoot it instantly and her other abilities are just there for after getting a kill. Im not defending toxic people, just saying that being 18 16 can still be good if you get the important kills like entrying or clutching. If you picked duelist youre not expected to get double the kills than everyone else, youre expected to make space for the team to push.

  13. Honestly if you've got above average mechanics and position yourself well with your team I find I consistently get 1.5-2.0 k/d on reyna. Just go in after the entry, get a guaranteed trade then play smart angles post-plant, in soloqueue if I find my team to struggle holding site I'll sit on an off-angle holding a crossfire with one of the randos.

  14. 18-16 no. I once was in a game where the enemy team diffed us completely, but the Jett on our team still managed to diff the enemy team and match MVP somehow, so the scoreboard looked smth like this:

  15. smurfing to dunk on lower ranks then gets mad at lower ranks for being worse teammates than he gets at his main's rank

  16. Let me ask you a question: would you rather have a duelist who goes 6-16 who enters site every round, is always in a position to be traded, creates space, is a nice person to play with and you win the game or a duelist who goes 30-10 but baits the whole team, can't get impact kills, is toxic and ends up losing you the game?

  17. Had a friend who played Reyna like the latter. Always lurking and getting exit kills. We had to call him out about how his kills aren’t impactful.

  18. It's a false dichotomy. I'd rather have the duelist who plays good entry and site defense while also being capable of shooting his gun. You don't go 6-16 playing well.

  19. I’ll take a 30 kill teammate over a 6 kill teammate and it’s not even close, no justification needed. If he’s not entrying, then just tell the team to do default, and he will create space on the other side of the map. You running it down cause you lost your gunfight then blame the top fragger with 30 kills for losing, sorry that’s ur fault not his.

  20. Really tired of hearing score as an excuse to be an asshole. Such a weak power trip for some desperate people.

  21. I’d take the bottom frag if they were setting up plays like crazy and using util well. Otherwise, I’ve gotten decent with playing around/dealing with toxics

  22. This never happens. Maybe in pros you can have a solid role player who plays only for the team. However in my experience (peak d3) anyone who is good with utility generally good with mechanics aswell. They might not top frag, but ive never played with a god breach or astra who couldnt get alot of kills aswell

  23. I'd rather have someone that did what they signed up for and get 0 kills 0 assists.. than one that pops off drops a 50bomb and just plays to get kills..

  24. I think team mentality is way more important than it’s given credit. If we’re all in a good mood trying our best the game can go a lot better. If I don’t clutch but the team says nice try, at least I’m the only one beating myself up.

  25. Honestly, going down with the ship can be just as fun as dominating. All that matters is that we tried our best and had fun doing it.

  26. Rather a chill bottom frag. Toxic top frag will only not make me feel like the games ruined if they drop 40 impact frags... Which has never happened.

  27. Having a toxic top frag and losing is way worse than a chill bottom frag because top fragging means nothing if you lose the game. You can still have a lot of impact on the game and still bottom frag. Also, it’s easier to move on from a game with chill teammates than losing a game with someone who doesn’t stop complaining.

  28. A dulest who entrys but doesn't get kills will ultimately be better for the team and get more work done because he will just get traded out and help the team get more space on sight for the plant but someone has a good kd and lurks doesn't do shit for the team and is just a liability because he's makeing no impact kills. Ps if you're running into players who lurk as dulest it's better off to try and get your team to just follow where ever he's pushing instead of just let him go off on his own or just default and let him get some picks and push a sight off the kills he get later in the round you don't need to push a sight as soon as the round start's there is always a way to still win games with players like this

  29. Tbh, a toxic top frag is more of a liability and affects the morale and performance of the other four. A chill bottom frag who is actively contributing in the form of comms or strats or any observations is much more beneficial.

  30. Chill Bottom Frag every single time, because even though they're bottom frag they're more than likely still trying to win. That and frags are not the be all end all for skill, pop flashing, smoking, healing, intel all play just as important a role and the players who usually main those often times are near the bottom of the board

  31. chill bottom frag. frag doesn’t mean shit, especially if the kills they’re getting are impactful. toxic top frags just about always will take the unnecessary gunfight over planting/defusing, and it’ll cost their team the game lol. watching someone ruin their teams mental and drop 30+ kills just to blame the loss on their team is beyond frustrating.

  32. Chill bottom frag who’s a great team player! I will take that every game i do not care. I’d rather enjoy my games with nice people who are bottom frags than win while being accosted the whole game fuck that shit

  33. I mean I don't care how well anyone on my team does. Everyone has done well enough to be in my ELO period. People have off games. I will take the non toxic player all the time. There can also only be one bottom frag so I'll choose a non toxic team and the one bottom frag, I don't really care. Me not bottom fragging is a good thing anyways. I don't need a toxic carry because I'll lose that game back somewhere down the line as that game is obviously a game where I've been carried towards an MMR I don't belong.

  34. As I always see, I don’t count how many kills does one did, but how many clutch one can do… I got a game where there is our Omen got 0/9/… for 13 rounds, and he still can clutch a 1v2 for the team. There is also a game I got a Phoenix who got 20 something kills, just by pushing, get 1-2 kills, die, and leave the rest for the team… thing is, it doesn’t matter how good a shooter you are, if your post plant game is bad, you lost the rounds, then it cost your team the game… so the top and bottom frag doesn’t really matter… unless you’re playing with your friends and can make fun of them about that.

  35. Hey, that Phoenix was actually good, getting 10+ first bloods. If you are playing entry, you don't need to worry much after first pick, you already did what you need to do, the rest is just extra

  36. Getting 1-2 kills a round is good on attackers. Trading 1 for 1 is always worth on attackers. It’s defenders that are at a disadvantage if they trade 1 for 1.

  37. Depends. I want to win so someone who gets these frags helps alot. So I would prefer having a 40/13 reyna instead of the his sage go 2/21.

  38. It depends, but playing ranked on main account I'd always prefer good toxic player over "nice and pleasant" player who barely can do anything.

  39. They probably 2-2 spilt with Reyna flanking, the 2 anchors die first, then the 2 rotate and die, then the Reyna comes in. Atleast thats what i guess.

  40. All Reynas are like that. I prefer to mute them at the agent select and pick more aggressive agent because i know no one is going to entry

  41. Mute them without giving them a chance? And assume they’re not going to entry? That doesn’t seem like a good attitude tbh, like yes mute them if they’re toxic but like don’t mute them just because they choose a character that you’ve had unlucky teammates with

  42. Depends on if I would win with the toxic top frag or not, same with the bottom fragging team player. If they’re gonna drop 40 and solo carry me to the win, sure, I’ll live with it

  43. I was bottomfragging yesterday as viper on icebox and I didnt get a single complaint, I was comm'ing, I used my smokes well, and we won the game. In that case I was the chill bottom frag and I was useful. Support role.

  44. As long as the top fragger carrying us hard and winning the game. But if it's like that - still losing the rounds, fck him then.

  45. obvious answer, the chill bot frag. Also you have to think about the context bcs, yes, they could be bot fragging but you also have to see the impact they give on the team. Like if he won clutch rounds or not, giving good comms, etc.

  46. I certainly enjoy nice teammates more even if they're not doing very well but for the sake of winning the game I'd take a toxic teammate that carries that i can easily mute. Guess it depends on my mood, hard to say tbh.

  47. The average amount of kills for a reyna top frag is within the 20s and those deaths are too much considering how reyna can escape a life or death situation with a quick dismiss and quickly heal herself(that is if she already got a kill).This reyna probably doesn't how to deploy her abilities at the right time,but I'm more of a Omen main than a reyna main so this is just my theory.And to answer ur question,no I would rather have a cool bot frag who can support and play with the team instead of an egoistic top frag.

  48. Chill bot frag. Idc if I lost with my team, if my team left me in a great mood, I’d have the determination to continue playing. The high frequency of toxic players in Val is exactly why I can stand doing one unrated game at most

  49. the reyna would get more kills by playing with the team, reyna is just that agent that needs some help from team to setup. Lurking always on reyna just points out you are not a good reyna playerAnd I would definetly have a chill bottom frag team player. bottom frag also doesn't mean that you are a bad player. :)

  50. It depends if we win or not. If the toxic player helps us win, I’d take it any day. I can put up with any amount of toxicity as long as they’re not throwing

  51. Toxic top fraggers can really mess with the team morale. I had a lot of experience where my team gets to have a hot start because of a cracked reyna/jett but fell through the rest of the game because they’re unbearable. Chill bottom frag with great team play will always be a good balance.

  52. Bro, at this point I just want some comms. So many of my games this act are with 2+ people on the team that make zero callouts.

  53. Even when I play league which I think is a much more team dependent game (in my iron 0 opinion) I still prefer a non toxic player so I think it’s the same for me in valorant. I don’t take valorant super seriously (I’m just mot great at shooters) so I prefer having a good time and I find that even if someone is playing bad if they have a good mental and listen to the team you can usually work with them to make up for their lack of fragging or help them with whatever fundamentals they are missing. If I’m not gonna communicate much though I would just take the toxic player and mute all which probably isn’t the best but I mute fairly often because I think toxic players make me play worse than I would even if I had good callouts.

  54. Had a very similar Reyna yesterday that just lurked every single round and would get a couple kills after we all died. Theyre so frustrating to play with. Would rather have a chill bottom frag any day

  55. Chill buttom frag. Usually top frags are bad players who just lurk for kills. While bottom frags are the ones that jumps in first and give information with great communication.

  56. Yesterday i played With a toxic smurf reyna who ended up 22/19 and shittalking since round one 😅 i hope This will Never Happens again

  57. Problem is if you just do the same thing ( lurk mid ) you are useless af cause even gold players will realise that at some point and just catch the lurk

  58. I’m always the latter 😭😭😭 5-22 in comp as Jett and really didn’t help the team much but we almost came back from the 9-3 curse

  59. I have conplained time and time again about toxic teammates. I have 0% of fun when a teammate is a toxic fuck. I eventually mute them because when has any toxic teammate ended up being helpful at all? But before i mute them theyre usually toxic right off the bat and then that ruins my mood and i will start doing shit. Toxic teammates telling me to go kill myself time and time again is the exact sole reason why ive take three separate 4 month breaks from this game that i generally enjoy.

  60. I personally would rather have a toxic top Fragger assuming he was actually good and carrying. I just prefer the win over the loss, I can deal with toxicity.

  61. I just played a game yesterday where we lost but my team was so fun and friendly that the loss didn't even matter.So I'd rather lose with friendly teammates than win with toxic ones.

  62. toxicity doesn't matter, there is a mute button for a reason. Once you press mute the toxicity no longer exist.

  63. bot frag. have my own horror story (where one of my friends kept insisting he was a good guy and we should queue bc they played in spike rush. cue 20 rounds of nonstop toxicity)

  64. My biggest issue rn is communication, half the time my team is not speaking and it gets super frusturating so personally id rather have a bot frag that call shit out than a top frag that speaks less than one word per round. But yes, if they commed, id take the chill bot frag anyday

  65. My biggest issue rn is communication, half the time my team is not speaking and it gets super frusturating so personally id rather have a bot frag that call shit out than a top frag that speaks less than one word per round. But yes, if they commed, id take the chill bot frag anyday

  66. Had a toxic topfragging raze (only about 2 more kills than 2nd) who kept insulting our sova's util. Called them out for only insulting sova when the killjoy was clearly not even using any util except a turret they kept putting in the corner facing the wall. They then peoceeded to start grenading me every round and even ulted me. The one round they didnt go the same site as me i aced

  67. I don't understand why people don't understand that you don't have to play duelist/initiator to frag. You can very well play sage and kill 25+. They just make it easier. If you got the balls, then play controller AND be top frag like that. That's the real Chad move.

  68. If it would get me out of being hard stuck in silver… I’d prolly take the toxic top frag. Can always just mute them if they are being awful.

  69. Bottom frag all the way, I cant stand sweaty try hard insta reynas that just talk shit to everyone just because they have spent their whole life in aim lab instead of practicing how to be a fucking teammate

  70. The question itself is fundamentally wrong, as there is only 1 right answer, the chill bot frag. because there will always be a top frag. So its asking whether u want a team with a toxic top frag and a usual bot frag or a usual top frag and a chill bot frag😀😀😀 i rest my case

  71. is the bot frag a duelist doing it nothing all game or a smoker/sentinel/initiator giving comms and actually using their util? If someone's an ass but actually plays the game idc too much, obviously would prefer them acting like a human being though

  72. If the toxic top fragger literally carries the game to 13-0 then ill take any shit talking they are gonna throw at me.

  73. If they win the game and drag that much, then wtv lmao. If they’re only top frag by a few then stfu.

  74. I’d just mute the top frag and enjoy the game and hopefully win. Bottom frag is fine as someone has to be bottom but if it’s like 4-6 kills and 17-18 deaths : that’s likely not ideal and I’ve been the bottom frag with 4-6 kills and I can admit that a major fault in those losses is me not doing my job. I’m not high level so idk about higher ranks but imo no matter ur role, getting kills is essential and the most important thing.

  75. The only way I would rather have the first type of player is if they're god incarnate. Like great callouts, entry, positioning, 3-4k every round. If you're playing good enough that you're literally your entire team then you do have SOME grounds on which to call your team bad.

  76. Chill bottom fragger. Even if they are not getting the kills they will have a fluid mindset allowing for great support so others can get the wins.

  77. toxic top frag IF they win games by it because i care about winning, i don't want bad players in my team if im grinding for higher ranks

  78. I wonder if toxic and egoistic players see these kind of posts and react like ‘damn that’s me’ or if they don’t even know they are the problem

  79. I’d take a chill bottom frag any day of the week. At the end of the day I’m playing valorant to have fun, idgaf if I lose if I had a blast the entire game. Toxic people ruin games and that’s a fact.

  80. Me and friends (party of 3) wanted to play duelists. We were on a streak, we won last 13 ranked games. All of which either one of us was playing support, we had no intention to troll but as soon as it said Ascent, where all three of us play a duelist locked one and another guy locked raze. The 5th guy in the game picked Sova and started throwing from round 1 cuz we picked 4 duelists. We lost the first 3 rounds, but then we won 7 rounds in a row and then lost 2. Basically it was 7-5 in defense on ascent with 4 duelists. We went on to dominate attack like crazy, it was 12-5 in no time and our Sova was still trying to throw the game. I don’t get it- what’s the point of playing the game if you’re not gonna let off some steam and play something you like. We eventually won the game 13-7 and the Sova was malding in all chat, with a KDA of 0/19/7. Meanwhile the other 4 who picked duelists each of us had 20+ kills leaving our top frag who had 32.

  81. only in specific situations. if it’s my rank-up game and we’re winning, then i won’t mind and i’ll let the toxic player do their thing. outside that specific scenario, no

  82. I would track him find him and rehabilitate him ( jk ) , but a lot of the toxic people are just so online, last time I met someone maybe even worse than this I told him something nasty and he got scared . I got vc muted for a short amount of time but it was worth it. I usually don’t swear to people , 1 in 30-50 matches where I meet like extremely toxic people but that guy was just another level.

  83. I don't really care how toxic people are. Just want to win. You can just mute toxic people so who cares. I see people for one game usually that's it. So I'd rather win and have a toxic person that I mute right away than a friendly person that is holding the team back and we lose.

  84. Chill bottom Fragger cuz we don't care even if we lose the match because everyone will play in proper way and lose that game ,but having a toxicity teammates does make the team not play and throw the entire match and lose the game

  85. As long as we win I honestly don't care. If someone is being a toxic ass while also carrying the game, it's pretty easy mute/ignore them. If we're losing the game anyway, of course I'd prefer someone who isn't toxic unless they are the number 1 reason we're losing, which is pretty rare.

  86. ofc a chill bottom frag , toxic players affect the game and the players around them and the vibe of the team. that’s why toxicity is reportable in the game.

  87. Chill team player bottom fragger. I would love to have a good time while playing the game. If I am having a good time, I have a high chance of winning and high chance of carrying.

  88. My asc friend queues with me(silver) to pick fights with other people. It’s annoying, but I beed that carry.

  89. Whichever one helps win games. I've gotten used to phasing out toxicity in valorant. I'm sorry I just hate wasting 40 mins of my life in a loss.

  90. The latter for sure. Even if someone isn't getting kills, communication and teamplay fully compensates for it by enabling others to get (more) kills. A good attitude even keeps the team's mental state healthy.

  91. It depends if the toxic top frag is entrying and creating space… so getting useful frags. I’d certainly in a ranked game pick them over a bottom frag who is nice.

  92. maybe I'm biased because I am the controller bot frag, but I can't even count how many times I've had a Reyna or Jett top frag who gets all the kills but never plays with the team so we end up losing. And yet I'm the one who gets yelled at for causing us to lose.

  93. A few days ago my whole team (duelists) killed me (sage) cause I didn't pick up one of the teammates Odin, even though we had full money and he could afford it. I immediately got off during the game. I don't deal with toxicity. Remember it's just a game. Don't let people try to fuck with you. If they fuck with you tell them off and leave. This is why I suggest to make 2 accounts so you can bounce back and forth from them to avoid the toxic and overwhelming games.

  94. 18/16/2 isn't even that high of a frag to be completely real. Playing with the team in my recent comp game, I was mid to bottom frag and I was still at 17/15/2, I would definitely report and I would be happy to know that they are going to be hardstuck for a LONG while if they keep lurking and flanking rather than playing with the team.

  95. The game isn't one dimensional and neither are mentalities. There are toxic people who are angry at their underperforming players which can be agreeable given the right situation or dismissible if they are just being douchebags. If you're a 110 avg damage brimstone main in my elo I don't particularly like you on my team, you're not meant to be in my elo tbh and I'd feel bad if we won because you probably don't deserve it. That said if you're 11/19/5 in a close game but you're still using correct util such as good smokes and/or baiting for the players actually hitting their shots then I don't mind. I won't scream at people in either situation but I will have toxic feelings, usually resulting in "can you just do this please" which a lot of underperforming players get angry at(because they are upset at their performance). It's a competitive game which by nature increases tension and desire to win/perform so avoiding toxicity is not possible.

  96. Depends how well the bottom frag can play his role and how good the toxic player can play their role and tap heads. If the toxic Reyna on your team went like 30-16 and wasn’t getting all their kills from lurking and baiting then I’ll take the top frag probably

  97. As someone who does instalock Jett, I never speak during agent selection. You do you pal is what I say when others want to pick next. And I only speak after we load in. I try to maintain comms and make it light hearted and not like we're going into war. Usually, people speak up. If someone does something terrible I point out it and then end the conversation with "Now come on we'll focus on the next round". We can say kills don't matter but usually people listen to you if you are fragging. This is true in low elo especially where people value kills more than anything and so if you are the top Fragger and are positive, the team environment is generally positive. Even if you're not fragging try to maintain a cheery mood and it will definitely reflect well on the team. And the best advice, get a 5 stack asap. While all these guidelines are great, getting a 5 stack and chilling with the homies is much much better than everything else.

  98. I would rather have a chill person than the toxic idiot. I can understand having a bad game or two, we all have them, but if you are a toxic idiot I have no mercy for you.

  99. I took a break from valorant after a toxic top frag skye kept fishing kills by hiding in corners with a judge and baiting our teammates, she wouldn’t heal, flash, or stun and would flame who was ever bottom frag. Which was me most of the game because I was having a bad game. Anyways by second half I muted the douche because he was yelling at me to play better but then he started following me around the map making noise to get me killed? I don’t know what the hate boner toward me was about. I didn’t even talk to him so I guess he did it because I wasn’t hitting shots. So after that game I decided in gonna take a break from Valorant because that was one of the most unnecessary and annoying gaming experiences I had in a long time. Now it’s been 2 months and I still have no desire to go back to the game.

  100. i would rather lose a game with a group of randoms that gave off good vibes and good comms with a bit of banter, than win with my whole team being toxic

  101. Definitely the chill bottom frag. I recently lost 11-13 in a very close game with a underperforming teammate who was having but still played the team game and i still had a lot of fun just because my teammates were really fun and still joked around.

  102. So this act I went from silver 3 to Dia 1 (basically a Viper main) and my stats are horrible. I basically bottom fragged my way up. But since I’m winning a good % of games it means I’m doing something right, right?

  103. i would pref to have a bottom fragging nice guy who brings a good vibe despite having a shit game anyday

  104. Chill bottom frag. I played with what id consider a toxic top frag duelist who was playing really strong until the rounds we needed to put the games away. Was loud, dumb, annoying, played as reyna and wouldnt buy any util or flashes, would open his mic to cough or sing for no fucking reason. He asked for a skin, I said no, he said man im just trying to carry, I told him hes actively making everyone worse. We won because of our quiet KJ who clutched back to back to back rounds in OT.

  105. Since I'm low rank I'll take the toxic player since the mental trade off is worth it to me. If I was higher rank, then I'd take the chill bottom frag because I'd feel more individually responsible about our ranks. And the reason that's not how I feel now is because of smurfs at lower ranks, that's a gap no amount of mentality difference can fix, just have to get good.

  106. I would much rather have a toxic carry than nice shit teammates. I could care less if you're the nicest person in the world, losing is only going to make me upset and get off this game. Toxic ppl are part of valorant, they flow through us like water in a river. You learn to love your toxic brethren and often times put them in check or troll them back, either one is a great experience imo. Sometimes your toxic teammates becomes your friend, no cap.

  107. I prefer teammates that just enjoy the game rather than focusing on winning or losing rounds. For eg. If one of our teammate is the last player standing and he messes up while trying to clutch, I'll prefer teammates that would just laugh it out or just give tips in a polite way instead of bashing or being toxic

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