The way he thought he had an intelligent argument😭😭

  1. “Not a gatcha” Proceeds to carefully word his questions with ill intent. Kinda what I expect from a TikTok preacher.

  2. I’m copy pasting this from my own comment in the thread but, I don’t think he’s making a bad faith argument intentionally. He’s trying to argue atheists by using the logic that he uses to believe his religion over others. He believes that god exists and think atheists have “the belief” that god does not exist. The thing is atheists don’t, believe that god doesn’t exist. Atheists, do not believe. At all. Not just your god. Not just your religion. Atheists do not believe. And the idea that people have other beliefs makes sense to this guy. But the idea that people have no beliefs is baffling for someone who sort of thinks it’s a human norm.

  3. Had a religious boss who would phrase questions so that it was a lose-lose no matter how you answered the question. Man I hated that mother fucker!

  4. Wow, baby's first theological argument. Makes me think that his target audience is 12yo edgelords he thinks he can outwit.

  5. This reminds me of a video I had to sit through at a church's "youth group camp" that was essentially Christiants walking around public places shoving a mic in people's faces to challenge non believers. Just absolute absurdity and zero logic that even me as a 12 year old cringed at.

  6. The dude's exhausting. He runs a social media presence called "Capturing Christianity", the motto of which is "exposing you to the intellectual side of Christianity" and then he puts out dumb nonsense like this.

  7. No, the first question is not nuanced enough. It’s not that I actively do not believe that god exists so much as I am simply not convinced that a god actually does exist.

  8. I don't think so, I think it's much sneakier than that. The wording of the first premise is very problematic. "Do you believe that God does not exist" seems framed to imply that atheism is a system of belief when in reality I would argue that atheism is a lack of a belief. Its easier to fall for this line of thinking because atheism has been given a noun, you don't identify or receive a term for not believing in Santa, the Easter Bunny or for not believing that there's a teapot floating in space (see: Betrand Russell). The reason this phrasing is problematic is because once you accept the first premise (based on awkward phrasing), it obviously sets up the rest of the argument. The way I see it, an atheist should disagree with the first question. For reference I'm an Agnostic, but I think this argument is shitty.

  9. That’s not the first question at all. I’m an atheist and I don’t believe that god does not exist. I just don’t believe that god exists. There is a subtle difference between those two claims. The claim “god does not exist” is pretty sensational, dubious, and difficult to prove.

  10. No it's not. He's asking atheists if they actively believe that there isn't a god. There's an important distinction between "I don't believe in a god" (most atheists) and "I believe there is no god" (what this guy is trying to get people to say). The former is the rejection of a claim without evidence and the latter is a faith based belief.

  11. They don't subscribe to this method of thinking, which is the problem. We don't agree on reality because to them everything is evidence god exists.

  12. I agree with you, but I also assume that lack of evidence that god exists is not the sole reason people are atheist, so his questions are incomplete and misleading.

  13. That's half the picture though. In reality, the burden of proof lies on those who claim something is true. Both people who believe in a god and people who believe that there isn't a god would need proof to back up their statements. The only people who don't. We'd proof are the ones who simply say they don't know if there's a god.

  14. It's why he phrased it so awkwardly. "Do you believe that God doesn't exist?" No. I don't believe in God. He phrased to try an make it sound like not believing in something is a belief, and there for trying to put the burden of proof on the atheist. I also love the "these aren't gotcha questions". That's literally what they are.

  15. You can go much further than that and say something like, "there is a big blue flamingo in every room of every house" the proof needed is that you believe that, or that you think it would be crazy to think otherwise... The strangest question to ask a religious person is why don't you believe in these other religions? Those religions have everything yours has, why pick this one? Any proof you give me that Jesus is your savior i can give you proof that a hundred other gods are your savior. To each their own, just keep it the fuck out of my life, my finances and my way of life

  16. My go-to example I like to use with people/arguments like this is: "I say you suck donkey dicks. Prove me wrong."

  17. I ask them that and they just reference some "miracle" in south America or something that people "witnessed" so I don't bother even discussing it because they are brain washed.

  18. He actually has a point though. There is neither proof that God exists, nor that he doesn't. Which is why any fullblown evidentialist should technically be an agnostic.

  19. Yup, this guy is essentially saying “Prove I’m not currently petting an invisible, itty bitty giraffe” You can’t prove a negative man. Logical is not the territory of religion.

  20. Yeah, these things are awful. I have a friend who thinks without the bible morality wouldn't exist as if the bible isn't full of what people consider moral failings and as if every non-abrahamic culture doesn't have a system of ethics and morals. It's poor reasoning to the max

  21. It’s like «prove to me you don’t fuck goats» guy. You can’t just prove God doesn’t exist, just like you can’t prove he DOES exist.

  22. There is also specific evidence that disproves the existence of their deity. For example, there is mythos surrounding their god claim. If their god claim involves a deity creating the Earth 6000-10000 years ago, that is easily disproven. If they claim that their deity created two humans, Adam and Eve, who are humanity's common ancestors, that is easily disproven. If their claim involves Noah's Ark, that is easily disproven.

  23. Wouldn’t that lend itself more toward agnosticism? Atheism traditionally means the belief that God doesn’t exist, not merely the lack of belief that he does.

  24. Just why are the religious obsessed with Atheists and how they think? Why do they care? Let it go dude. Find something else to do with your beliefs like help the poor and sick. In a manner that they wished to be helped.

  25. It's also helpful to discuss what counts as valid evidence while they still think you are the one who needs to furnish that evidence. Get them to agree that anecdotal stories don't count and hearsay doesn't cut it etc. Then you flip it on them, lol.

  26. It’s like if someone told you that vampires were real, and then when you asked for proof they instead asked you for proof that they did not exist. Obviously it’s impossible since you cannot check every crevice, nook and cranny of the Earth and therefore due to your lack of evidence their point is suddenly correct to them

  27. I grew up in the Bible belt and got asked this by an acquaintance once. My response was "I believe unicorns being ridden by leprechauns exist and they poop rainbows, prove me wrong."

  28. It’s not circular reasoning. This would be circular reasoning: God exists because the Bible exists, and the Bible exists because God exists.

  29. And many cite the Bible as evidence he exists. So that means I can write a book that says he doesn’t exist, have “first hand accounts” that are completely made up and that means he doesn’t exist right?

  30. Thats why we need to incorporate Philosophy and Theory of Knowledge at least in High Schools. People need to know the basics of how to think properly.

  31. It’s called trying to prove a negative. Can he prove to me he’s not a genetically cloned humanoid sent from another to observe us? It’s not up to the rest of us to disprove your personal delusion when the same burden of proof doesn’t extend your initial claim.

  32. I always respond to this angle of questions with “do you believe that you killed JFK, yes or no?” If they engage they can twist while I god of the gaps them till they quit.

  33. “Oh you’re an atheist? But if you BELIEVE god doesn’t exist isn’t that also a BELIEF?! Haaaaah. Gotcha, atheist!”

  34. Unfortunately this is exactly what many evangelicals believe - god wants the “weak” to be in power because they then allow god to rule through them. “When you are weak he is strong”. Never mind that the hordes of people believing this actively fund sociopaths running local and national churches through tax free tithing that has turned the “church” into essentially powerful corporations that influence elections and oppresses their members from thinking any differently than their creed.

  35. An even better mind bending one that I heard years ago was "I propose the universe began 10 minutes ago, prove me wrong" and any rebuttal of "well I have memories, carbon dating, records, etc." Is met with "well it was just created that way, those memories were put there, etc"

  36. Here’s what i believe as an atheist > gods would serve absolutely no purpose without anyone to worship them..without us, they don’t exist… without them, we DO exist. The invention of gods are a control mechanism over the desperate and gullible, which there’s no shortage of… so really, who made who

  37. One of my favorite quotes from Brockmire is about how religious people use religion as an existential nightlight.

  38. Except if you think about the idea of a cosmic entity that has omnipotence and some kind of greater control over the universe, how does us not believing in it give it any less power? If the world is created before humans populate it in these creation stories, then clearly the deity doesn't need human belief/worship to exist or be powerful.

  39. The burden of proof falls on you not on atheists. You guys are the ones who preach an almighty figure that created us. Science has disproven many things in the bible that would lead people to not believe in God, so it’s up to you to provide solid evidence of him. Which will never happen cause religion requires faith, I have no problem with this, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but don’t point the finger at atheist demanding evidence when you have yet to provide any.

  40. Y’all ready for this shit. Many reasons why god possibly doesn’t exist (coming from someone who believes in whatever happens when I die, I don’t believe in god nor do I not believe in him) 1 the scientific death, you die you get put into the ground and become one with the bugs and the little particles that eat you, they then poop you out and you become new life soil, you grow into a beautiful plant only to feed caterpillars and get a close up to life. The caterpillar eats you and poops you out therefore you repeating the process. Death 2 The trippy death, your body decomposes you become one with the mushrooms you see light and color but not life, you feed off the body that was once yours and grow into a habitat for bugs or small animals. 3 you have been cremated! You ether live in a jar for the rest of your life close to the ones that love you but if you were set free you become one with the world exploring the winds, mountains, rivers, and oceans you get to see all life and be apart of it.

  41. I think I enjoyed Cameron a bit before, when he was truly interested in having a conversation across. Now he's become more of the same, he's become really fixated with WLC.

  42. My evidence is the lack of evidence he exists. For example, if I say I don’t believe in Santa clause, and you say why, I’d probably say because I haven’t seen him fly around the world all in one night before. Nobody ever seen him. Literal zero evidence he exists.

  43. What is your evidence to justify your belief that god does exist? The bible could for all we know just be nothing more than a collection of old stories and morals. What makes Christianity more valid than any other religion?

  44. Define "God." I'd like to hear examples of words spoken, actions taken, etc before I tell you whether or not I believe in anything.

  45. Welp he got us. Pack it up folks we were clearly wrong all along because we can’t prove that god doesn’t exist. We also can’t prove that Aliens don’t exist so that means it’s 100% that aliens exist. We can’t prove that multiple universes don’t exist so somewhere out there this guy isn’t an asshole.

  46. What is your evidence that that Ra the sun god does not exist? How about leprechauns? Zeus? Fairies? Odin? Wood sprites? Daikokuten? Kukulcán? Ajé Shaluga, Babalú Ayé, Bumba, Nana Buluku, Obatala, Olorun, Ogo, Oko, Olokun, the Orishas, Orunmila, Oshun, Oya, Shango, or Yemaya?

  47. Logic would dictate that the creator of the universe would actually think you’re a moron for worshipping him since he’s given us no proof of his existence.

  48. So yes to the first two. My evidence for the 3rd quesrion is I have seen what believers do in the name of thier God...and it's not the same God. The horrors committed from one people to another in the name of religion are unjustifiable.

  49. What is your evidence that god exists other than fairy tales and some random made up stories. Clown

  50. It's absolutely insane to me how 99.9% of Christians do NOT understand burden of proof. I fear being on the other end of a guilty verdict from a jury of Christians in a courtroom...

  51. Actually I know your god does not exists because Paul the God eating penguin exists. If there ever was a god.. it is no more. Because Paul ate him.

  52. You Got me, I’ll be in church for the bullshit next Sunday. I definitely owe back dues. I’ll bring my check book. Fuck this idiot

  53. I always hate seeing people like this. He seems to miss the point that you don't ever try and prove something doesn't exist. It is his job to prove God does exist, not the Atheists job to prove he doesn't exist.

  54. I'm sure most people already know how to refute this, but if not, the burden of proof is on the person who claims something to exist. It's very difficult or even impossible to prove something doesn't exist, hence why we assume non-existence until given evidence for existence.

  55. 1: Define god. The Abrahimic god? I am almost 100% it doesn't exist, as e.g. it cannot be benevolent and e.g. Genesis' order of creation is catagorically wrong, Sodom is a sign of god's evil not his good or mercy etc etc. But for me to answer if a god exists you first need to define what you are calling a god

  56. What is your EVIDENCE that there is no colony of Martian Barney the dinosaur clones planing to take over earth on the side of mars we can’t see??? Prove it!

  57. "This isn't a gotcha question..." proceeds to setup a shitty gotcha question that misunderstands and warps the core of the argument he's trying to use. Fucking idiot.

  58. (this isn't me being mean but of expressing my view) I don't believe in god because I personally haven't seen any of this miracle shit that couldn't easily be explained, I believe once we die it's void forever and you cling to hope that is from a book some random fucking guy wrote

  59. It's bizarre how he totally missed the point of the second question. The second question is the reason I don't believe god exists. There is no evidence. I don't need evidence that he doesn't exist, because I have no evidence that he does. Same way I don't believe a frogman lives under my house. Because I have no evidence suggesting that's the case.

  60. Seriously though, neither do I believe, nor do I don’t believe. I wonder if god exist, I probably will be looking for an answer for myself for the rest of my life. Anyone the same?

  61. How about "Here's a question for christians, why can't you stop bothering people with your oppressive nonsense and go on with your lives?"

  62. I say that I'm not sure if a God exists but I'm sure your God doesn't exist. They make claims about their God that can easily be disproven.

  63. Religious nuts have a compulsive need for others to believe in god.. so, they come up with these tortured logic experiments To try and make their case.. I’m an atheist and I don’t give a rats ass if you personally believe or do not believe in god. I don’t need validation from others about my beliefs … but for them, it’s what define them,,, They have to keep telling you about it

  64. As an atheist, it's not on me to prove anything. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. So if you're going to say that there's an all powerful, all seeing, all knowing deity who created and is controlling everything, that's the statement that demands evidence, not the opposite of it.

  65. Yikes. I always cringe when Christians think they have a good argument against atheists. They never have and never will have good point. It’s impossible. That’s what happens when you believe in magic with no evidence and go up against people who don’t believe because there’s no evidence. You can’t win that argument.

  66. Giving us shit about not providing evidence for something that doesn't exist. Continues to belief in something without evidence except for a dusty book that has been translated dozens of times that contains stories that have been written down 40 years after they happened. Smh

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