Here's the deal: "Show me your ID or go to jail"

  1. If no policies were violated, why would they drop all charges? If they really believed that, why negotiate with someone who committed a bunch of crimes? It’s obviously horseshit.

  2. The entire concept of internal investigations are hilarious. It’s like if you stole a bunch of money from your job and your boss is like “Hey, we think you stole a lot of money from us. We want you to investigate yourself to determine if you did it or not.”

  3. Think of how many cops they wouldn't have if they didn't have qualified immunity. Instead they get blasted on the internet which results in desk duty for a week while they wait on the next video to surface. Before videos its he said she said..cops always right. They aren't going to change.

  4. Would he have had the right to comply with a different officer and ask questions of them? Or is the approaching officer the only point of contact allowed?

  5. Can Americans explain to me why there shouldn't be an armed resistance to fight back and commit violence against these cops? 2 more cops came and they went along with this crime against humanity... This is institutionalized racism and oppression.

  6. So...who is right? Does the officer need to provide a reason for stopping before ID is given? Everytime I've been stopped it's usually started with, "do you know why I pulled you over?". And then I'm asked for license/insurance.

  7. No, the cop doesn't need to provide you with a reason. But they are required to have reasonable suspicion of a crime occurring in order to ask for id.

  8. I don’t think the officer is required by law to state why, but it’s needlessly confrontational not to. Traffic stops should be about de-escalation, but escalation.

  9. Yes, you are required to give a cop your ID/registration/insurance during a traffic stop. I'm pretty sure this is universal in all 50 states. The "I don't have to tell you until after" thing is made up but I doubt it's illegal, just really stupid. Cops only escalate a situation, they pathologically cannot ever deescalate

  10. According to the article giving the end of the story : "The stop in question happened in April of 2016. Calvin Jones, 26, reportedly refused to hand over his driver's license and registration upon request, which he's required to do by law." But the officer should have used another way to calm down Calvin to end this peacefully

  11. I would go as far as to say in this situation it really doesn't matter. Definitely unnecessary use of force. Some cops really need to learn how yo deescalate...

  12. you need to provide it in all US states if you get pulled over. just walking around, in most states, you only need to provide it if youre suspecting of a crime. but if youre being pulled over, you are suspected of committing a crime, or you wouldn't be pulled over. so you are detained. show your id and move along. you aren't gonna change hearts and minds of cops on the street. save yourself another charge, and a window replacement, and fight the ticket in court

  13. If you are just walking down the street you do not need to provide ID unless the police have a reasonable suspicion / probable cause you commited an offense. If you are driving you do.

  14. As others have said, need to have a reason to pull someone over. But to drive you need a state provided license and to provide it upon reasonable request. (I.e., a cop pulling you over).

  15. Traffic stop you're always required to ID + insurance and registration if your state has paper work for it. If you were walking down the street, and they stopped you, you wouldn't have to ID unless they have suspicion of a crime. That's how it supposed to work... Clearly doesn't always.

  16. Everybody shitting all over the cop while ignoring the fact that the guy in the car was being a prick and refusing to show his license when he was lawfully required to do so

  17. Here in Ohio they need to have a "reasonable articulatable suspicion of criminal activity". They don't need to tell you, but they can't just stop and ID you for nothing. In some instances even when detained you're not legally required to give them your drivers licence, only to identify yourself. You are required to do so in a car for a lawful stop though.

  18. Cop doesn't have to tell them why they pulled them over. It will be on the ticket. You have to go in front of a judge to find out why you've been pulled over and to fight it. You don't fight it with the cop there. Cop's job is to write tickets. Not to be the judge. Judge's job is to figure out of the ticket is legal or not.

  19. In all 50 states if you are driving a vehicle and pulled over, you have to show a driver's license. You can fight the ticket later.

  20. In the majority of states, what you are obligated to give is your license, registration, and insurance during a traffic stop. Yes, they need reasonable suspicion or a reason to stop you. If they don’t have that, it’s a lot easier to fight in court rather than get arrested over it.

  21. How close did the moron cop come to dying? No situational awareness when he decided I am going in. He nearly had is head crushed by the car driving by when he fell back.

  22. This happened in 2016. Any idea what was the outcome - he was stripped naked and forced to lie on jail floor with very low ac. DA dropped all charges. What happened to all cops involved?

  23. Notice how the officer just tried looking for any excuse .? “You’re probably “ nobody pays you to guess . Just protect and serve . That’s it .

  24. They fucking arrested his wife too? Who was trying to get him to cooperate and was just recording for their own safety?

  25. Wow, "Godbee says the officer had grounds to make the stop and to question Jones" He didn't question Jones... he arrested him without cause. Police suck when you are innocent

  26. I see the reason for the initial stop still wasn't provided. There was a mention of running stop sign, but that seemed more like a hypothetical than the stated reason.

  27. Who paid for the legal advises, the broken glass and all the time spend on all this mess?

  28. What happened here is wrong undoubtedly. But me personally as a black man, I'm showing the officer my ID post haste. On top of being on the big side (6'2 200lbs), I conceal carry also, so it's in my best interest to not be a hassle and to let the officer know I'm 100% willing to comply.

  29. Ultimately the guy went about it in possibly the shittiest manner possible while still obeying the law. Ultimately refusing to identify yourself when given a lawful order is illegal so the cops were legally arresting him

  30. Best (and smartest) reply in this thread. Unless you really knew the law, you’re putting yourself at great risk when not complying (in this case, with a lawful order).

  31. Why can't these cops just tell him what happened and why they pulled him over instead of being absolute idiots like this?

  32. And people wonder why taxes go up, cause yall pay the lawsuit when the police get sued. This is disgusting behavior and anyone who cant/won't see it should take a step back.

  33. God damnit. That was completely unnecessary. If the initial cop would have just talked to the driver like another adult, they could have sorted this out. Instead, he played power trip games. Introduce yourself, give the reason for the stop. Remain polite and professional. Get a lot more cooperation that way.

  34. So I don’t know about the states but here in canada you 100% HAVE to show the police your ID when you are pulled over for any reason. Not doing so is a violation. However, this level of escalation was unreasonable.

  35. Assuming he has a valid driver's license and isn't committing a crime, he's trying to exercise a right that doesn't exist. It can be confusing because in many US states, a cop needs reasonable articulable suspison of commiting a crime in order for a person to be required to identify themselves. This doesn't exactly pertain to traffic stops. The cop needs a good reason to pull you over but even if they are lying, you are required to show your driver's license.

  36. Is Michigan a must identify state? If so technically the driver broke the law. You have to identify yourself if a police officer asks you regardless of the reason he got pulled over. Do I think it required THAT use of force no.

  37. I’m not trying to be THAT person but why don’t people just hand them their ID? Every time I’ve been pulled over that’s always my first thought…to hand them my license and insurance card. I’m not siding with the cops at all I’m just trying to gather more context about situations such as these.

  38. In the U.S., there are 3 times that you must show ID, when you are operating a motor vehicle, when you match the description of an individual that has committed a crime, or when the police have reasonable, articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime (RASC).

  39. Those may all me true in some states, but state by state the ID laws vary. In Texas, for example, aside from having to present a driver's license while operating a motor vehicle, you only have to provide ID upon arrest according to PC 38.02. Even then you're only required to provide name, address, and DOB. Everyone here should acquaint themselves with the laws in their state to avoid situations like the one in the OP.

  40. There is a reason why it is unacceptable to some people to present ID for no reason. If an officer walks up to you demanding an ID when you do not understand the reason for stop, you have justification to ask why before the officer starts to beat your face in.

  41. I'm not from the usa so dont think of this as defending the cop. If you are pulled over, arent you suppose to show your drivers license? Where I'm from traffic cops are allowed to pull you over and request to see the license of the driver. They are however not allowed to ask for ID for anyone else in the car and they are not allowed to search the car without a warrant.

  42. I just responded to someone else about this and while you've got the spirit you don't have the letter of the law quite right here.

  43. I feel like he got so many chances to just produce a licence and go the easy way? You get pulled over, licence and registration, it's just standard or am I wrong?

  44. Anybody have a link to an article or something? Also how are people struggling in the US? Like fuck id do some crazy shit to the police to get a fat paycheque

  45. People rarely win these lawsuits. The cops perform an "internal investigation", where they typically find "no wrongdoing" for the officer. Also, crazy shit can get you knocked out or killed because these half-brained mouthbreathers are on a power trip.

  46. Why couldn't the cop just tell him why he was pulled over. I think both parties were wrong but the cop was over the top

  47. Im pretty sure you have to provide a drivers license/insurance if your driving a vehicle regardless what the police are investigating/pulled you over for as its required to have a drivers license to drive a vehicle. If you were walking on the sidewalk, in your house, in a passenger seat, etc. you dont have too.

  48. This was the 2017 incident involving Calvin Jones in Taylor Michigan and all of this was over him supposedly running a stop sign and later the cops said he was "reaching between the seats", which the driver later said that he was just undoing his seat belt. They ended up holding him in a choke hold on the ground until he passed out.

  49. All of those cops were cowards. Even if one of them felt what the original cop was doing was wrong, they still stood there instead of intervening.

  50. It seems like the cop wanted to situation to escalate. It seems like a huge power trip. Why couldn’t he just tell him why he was pulling him over?

  51. Maybe instead of what I just saw, the cop could’ve told the guy why he was being stopped? Yes? No? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

  52. "In the soviet union you could be arrested for not carrying your papers at all times. Here in the United States of America you have freedom."

  53. Cops will do everything but give people respect and answer questions people ask because they are scared of the police/law enforcement. They love to abuse/harass people, especially poor people who can’t afford to defend themselves in any way. I can’t fucking stand police.

  54. I dont understand just hand the duder ur drivers license and registration. It can’t be that hard can it? Do ppl not know ur supposed to hand it over?

  55. Did anyone notice the first thing he does is unsnap his holster in front of the driver? There is no need for that. It is an intimidation tactic. Such a duck move.

  56. You are required to show ID in most cases if asked as the bar is so low the cop can easily lie to get it past a court.

  57. Legal and illegal are not the same as right and wrong. This looks like a cop that was waiting for an excuse. And he got one.

  58. I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to just do as they say. Show them the id, follow the rules, don’t talk back and everything will be fine. Right? Right?!

  59. The best thing you can do is document everything, cooperate only to the point that is required, and refuse to answer any other questions whatsoever. If they charge you they’ll have to provide you with a lawyer, and the first thing that lawyer is going to tell you is not to talk to them. If you’re going to be arrested, then be arrested peacefully. Refuse any request to search anything. If they search anyway, don’t fight it, just document that you refused and they proceeded all the same. Fighting them, arguing, or even just lobbing insults will not help you. It will look much worse than you think when played in a court room.

  60. Had cop fallen just a bit further back after breaking the window justice would have truly been served.

  61. Typical extremely violent police gang. Vandalizing a car and causing physical harm to a us citizen all because the cop didn’t want to do his job correctly and say what crime was committed while arresting a man. How dirty and low life do you have to be. Cowards and losers.

  62. In many jurisdictions, when stopped, the DRIVER of a vehicle must provide a driver's license to show that he is driving legally. Period.

  63. So…I generally agree that you should almost never talk to the police if they’re in any way insinuating that you may have done something illegal, but at a certain point you’re just needlessly putting yourself at risk, which is exactly what this guy did. He won’t give his ID or get out of the car because he’s (justifiably) afraid of what the cop might do to him, but ultimately if he had just handed over his ID he would likely have been sent on his way or, at worst, arrested for a probably minor infraction - he ended up getting arrested anyway, and in a much more violent manner than he might have been otherwise.

  64. How hard is it to fucking say "HI, Sir, my name is officer so and so, and the reason I pulled you over was for X reason. Can I please have your license, registration, and proof of insurance?" It literally takes 5 seconds, and satisfies literally every police department policy for interacting with the public.

  65. Everytime I get pulled over I always seek to cooperate with the officer friendly. They usually just let me go for being nice to them

  66. Bro they teach this in driving school. If a officer ask for id you should just give it and boom no problems. Maybe thats just my driving school but the officer is allowed to ask fo his id and arrest him for it. And no im not some blue lives matter dude. Like its a literal law search it up. Yeah the de escalation was definitely stupid and the cop wa dumb for making things worse but the dude could've just given him his id and boom no problems

  67. Depending on states and I think counties - each has their own laws about ID/license. BUT There has to be reasonable cause and not providing one (like the video) you can get this thrown out grounds of an illegal stop (but the cops can and will pencil whip a reason in their report). As long as the video backs that up, then you’re in an up hill battle. As for subject of them collecting ID is then described under a Lawful Order (where that is an extra charge if not compliant). The standard practice is ATM (ask, tell, then make - in that order). So, in the vid if the driver asked if it was a lawful order, the cop probably said yes, then you usually just follow the instructions and fight it in court. If for some bizarro reason the cop says no and this shit happens - you got a good case and possibly a lawsuit. This varies on state and county laws and of course corruption too.

  68. The cops a dick but the guy in the car doesnt know what the fuck he's talking about. " I have the right to remain silent so I can just sit here and ignore you". Those are the rights you are told after you've been arrested. Thats your Miranda rights you're given so you don't incriminate yourself.

  69. Those aren't Miranda rights. It's a "Miranda warning", and it tells you about the rights you had all along.

  70. Dude is driving and gets pulled over. Dude thinks he’s in charge of the stop—he’s not. You get pulled over you’re required to give your DL, registration and proof of insurance. It’s standard. Driver is acting shady AF. He’s in for a bad time.

  71. If you’re driving, you should be ready to hand out your driver’s license. Otherwise there is probably a good reason why you shouldn’t be driving.

  72. I am from an European country. I have been asked 3 times to show my ID this month while driving (it’s against the law to refuse here), and nothing bad ever happened to me. They don’t need “a good cause”, they are just checking random people for possibile expired driver license, no insurance, stolen cars… I really don’t understand what’s so bad about showing a piece of paper and leaving, unharmed, a couple of minute later.

  73. Cop did not break any law if he lawfully pulled over the driver. Cops aren’t required to tell you why they pulled you over.

  74. 100% preventable. The officer here has asked for something and not gained compliance. The follow up to this is to allow the person to "get away" with non-compliance, or to double down by repeating their original request. The officer is afraid of ceding this lack of compliance because he feels insecure about doing so. Let me just say I feel bad for this officer's children, who live in a ridiculously authoritarian household.

  75. I don't get why people don't just show their ID, regardless of who was in the wrong. Nothing good is gonna come out of refusing to give ID. Either you did something wrong and they're gonna find out one way or another or you're just gonna give them your ID and either get let go or get in trouble for what you did except in a more peaceful manner. If the dude showed his ID, guilty or not, the situation would have ended better than it did. If you're dealing with a cop you're better off just doing what they ask or you're fucked in one way or another.

  76. Fucking pigs. I guess organized crime is the answer here. Take them out one by one. Each pig should be scared for its life, of stepping out alone, of never returning home all the time.

  77. This might be unpopular opinion on Reddit, but I think Americans have an over confidence and sometimes over-exaggerated sense about individual liberties and rights. Most people who get into a back and forth with police are exerting rights that they are not clear on the law about.

  78. This is so fucked up. Why can't he just say why he's pulling the guy over? I know they don't technically have to but what is the harm in saying it? If that will de-escalate the situation, then do it. I know a guy who's a really amazing, kind police officer. His last day was Friday because he can't deal with the publics views on police anymore and it's just too much for him and it's because of guys like this who are causing the public to rightly feel that way.

  79. Fuck the police. They arrested him, his brother in law and wife, and then made him lie down on the floor of a holding cell in his underwear while blasting the AC.

  80. So the pulled him over for no reason in the hopes that he would give them would give them a reason to arrest him. Got it.

  81. I’ve trained 17 year olds that could have handled that better then this pathetic excuse for law enforcement.

  82. That's just wrong, just tell them why you got pulled over instead of acting like a big man with a gun and a plastic badge.

  83. Yes, if the police ask for your identification you must show it to them. That aside what is the problem with showing the police your drivers license unless there is a reason not to. If I was the police I would assume you were hiding something. He didn’t go through all of that just to make his point.

  84. I know a good cop who can’t wait to retire because no one likes cops now in days. When they are little more than a gang of bullies the good ones leave, then it’s Hello Gestapo. There has to be accountability and I’m sure there’s much more support for it in the ranks than you might suspect.

  85. Like cops or not, once they pull someone over, they have all the power. Any type of resistance is going to lead to increased charges/fines/etc. I hate to say it, but recording the interaction and filing a grievance is the only way to ‘win’ against shit cops.

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