Cursed Persona Moment

  1. Everyone seems to forget that joker is the one who started the relationship and that kawakami was the one who kept saying that this was a bad idea

  2. There’s also that rhythm game that takes place after persona 2, you can enter yusuke’s room and see that he has a shit ton of pictures and paintings of ann

  3. Now to be fair, I'm sure we all had a teacher at some point in our lives we crushed over, and this particular route in the game where you bond over time with a teacher shouldn't be compared to the teacher that abused, forced and blackmailed his students into gross stuff. Teacher/student relations in Japan have a certain moral code where teachers follow their student's progress and growth throughout the years so it's very frowned upon since it's kind of like a breach of contract through conflict of interests.

  4. There was no blackmail involved since it was Kawakami who initiated the deals in the first place. Joker would never really stoop so low as to expose her.

  5. Japan’s national legal age of consent is 13, but there are also many local laws that criminalize adults having a sexual relationship with a minor. Also, the Japanese government just proposed to change the penal code and raise the age of consent to 16 along with a number of other changes to protect victims of sexual assault.

  6. Every time I see this, I just go "Wtf, why?" Even here in Canada, AoC 16 is too low. Hell, if I could have it my way, it'd be 20 across the globe

  7. Kamoshida: Literally blackmailing students into not speaking up about his abuses, sexual and otherwise, of multiple students and their friends, and sees it as something he's entitled to because he's in a position of power.

  8. Not just a maid she hinted that there was a sexual aspect to her services she was a maid themed escort... That is the part she was getting over the hill in regards to people wanting younger girls.

  9. Not to justify Kawakami dating Joker, but there is a big difference between consensually dating someone and using blackmail to sexually assault and abuse people.

  10. Not to conflate the two, but calling their relationship "consensual" when it's between a 16 year old student and their teacher isn't entirely accurate.

  11. Joker is legal according the the Japanese government considering the legal age of consent goes from 13-18 in some parts of Japan. Like bro ideals start their care at like 12 to 13 and they have to sign consent forms. The only part in Japan where the age of consent is 18 is Tokyo because Japan does the consent based on how heavily populated the city or prefecture is. Heavy population equals 18 lower population is like 16-17.

  12. There's no way you are focusing on it being technically legal due to japan age of consent laws and not the gross power dynamics on display for a teacher to be dating their student.

  13. The FBI may want to investigate anyone on this comment thread suggesting a student can someone "consent" to a relationship with a teacher.

  14. I’m glad I got to romance Kawakami and Takemi in each of my multiple play throughs. Please contact the FBI and let them know. Document their response and post it here. I’ll wait.

  15. Difference is one is consensual and one isnt. The relationship with Kawakami is pretty immoral but it doesnt mean shes evil.

  16. persona 5 fan w/ an lgbt flag in pfp defending pedophilia is probably the most unsurprising thing ive ever seen

  17. No they don't in fact she says they won't until he is an adult and no longer her student I can't remember which part of the game she says it In but I think Its during that school dance thing

  18. I always saw it as a necessary evil for the adults playing the game who don’t want to romance the younger characters because they feel weird, so they have some options closer to their own age, but if you don’t consider Joker a self insert it’s gross, although that’s how I see him personally

  19. I assumed the fact he has a palace was due to the fact he was maliciously hurting girls and enjoyed the power he had from it. He also didn't even care the girl he r-ped almost killed herself.

  20. She’s a reluctant participant the whole time pretty much. Like she’s into for sure, but she’s not like “HELL YEAH MAN GONNA FUCK SOME MINORS”

  21. Youre right, the game should make it so that the adults playing as the player characters choice is between dating minors or none at all

  22. That's not what pedophilia is, but I understand it's common for people to use the term as a hot button phrase instead of what it actually is.

  23. Probably one of my favourite games ever made, but I agree, the pedophilia in the game really makes my stomach turn.

  24. In vanilla p5 it’s implied heavily. In royal that almost outright call it out when you find the “shrine” to shiho and Ann has to like, take a minute cause there are pictures. We dunno exactly what but it’s pretty obvious at that point.

  25. the most direct was when he asked Ann to come over,, I think after school? she confides in you at the cafe about how 'you know what he means, right?' and when she doesn't go, he talks about how he just took shiho and made her do it instead. that was the most direct reference, and the whole reason for her suicide attempt - it was pretty heavily implied honestly, but yeah, the fact he likely did it before is just vaguely implied, bc of course he would've. but that was the only definite case that happened during the game, and was a big plot point for why Ann was okay with him dying if things went wrong.

  26. The whole thing with Shiho attempting suicide almost immediately after being called to his office was very heavily implying he raped her. Its why Ann blames herself for what happened, because she was originally the one he wanted to see but she refused him.

  27. Given that’s it’s the palace of lust and we see how he thinks of the female students in a sexual way, I wouldn’t be surprised.

  28. Yes, he was a serial rapist, sexually abusing female students, physically abusing male students. It was very heavily implied, but the game held back from actually directly saying it, which I've always thought was strange especially given the subject material throughout the entire game and the rating, may simply be a cultural thing, I don't know.

  29. Everyone trying their different ways of tackling this but forgets kamoshida wasn’t shitty because he dated a student: you can argue it’s deplorable in its own right. But he was hated because he used his position of authority to assault and abuse these girls, sexually manipulating them into having sex with him, and forced a girl to almost take her life

  30. We remember, but putting both of these in the same game makes it seem like it's all fine if an adult teacher grooms their teenager students instead of assaulting them, which is pretty messed up.

  31. the main thing i dont like about p5 is that the first palace was partially about what ann went through, and then ryuji kept being pervy to ann the whole game

  32. I think more of that Ryuji accept the fact that Ann is a beautiful girl and has a huge crush on her since middle school, we all know his preference on girls at this point. Ann knows that Ryuji is a “ healthy 17 year old guy” and also constantly teasing him.

  33. Apparently people prefer that they dont have the choice at all if it means it strokes their self righteous egos.

  34. This would make much more sense if the cast was just 1-2 years older, there would be so much less awkward. But considering Japan obsession with teen punching god in the face, it doesn’t surprise me. One thing I really torned about is that I like the girls when I was the same age as them, is it wrong to still like them now?

  35. But this isn't the only occurance of such a thing in the game. There's a lot of uncomfortable moments I feel.

  36. Plus one is clearly abusive and disrespectful while the other is a kind nice individual working an extra job to make ends meet. I almost planned the teacher on my first run

  37. I mean the point of Persona is that it's a commentary on the darker aspects of Japanese society. It is ironic that the story is kicked off by a villain who's crime is predatory relationships, and then the game unironically includes a predatory relationship as a romance option.

  38. Playing Persona however one wants shouldn't be a crime. But if you are playing games without thinking about what happens in them at all, why even bother?

  39. For real. I've rejected every romance proposal from people not Joker's age. I don't know about legality in Japan but it's all very weird to me.

  40. Age of consent lower the proof is literally that their are students working as sex workers legally and it's only brought up because the student working as a sex worker almost got put into prostitution

  41. Can’t say that for my place. Already in my school time two such relationships between teacher and student happened. 17 and 3X and 16 and 60. In both cases no one cared even though one was technically illegal.

  42. well technically yes and no. depending on country any sex with a child is rape but at the same time in the uk for example rape is something only a person with a penis can do (although there is a similar law with the same punishment that covers non-penis havers)

  43. Oh look, another person throwing around terms they don’t understand about a work of adult fiction; it combines the worst parts of assholery and stupidity without diminishing either.

  44. I hadn't played a Persona game before so when I had the option to date her I was like "no fucking way." My roommate walked in as I found out the no was missing from the previous statement.

  45. I have a completely different take. I'm over 40, I ain't dating any HS girls. It's an RPG, and the role is me.

  46. ...is not generally possible between an adult and a minor, ESPECIALLY involving a power dynamic like a teacher/student relationship.

  47. Kamoshida was doing it against their will forcing girls on the volley ball team to service him while he used the boys as punching bags while at the same time he was openly flirting and pursuing Ann while black mailing her. Huge difference between kawakami and joker.

  48. To end this debate, look up the age of consent in Japan. Youd be surprised. Ive lived here for 4 years. I randomly googled it one day because i noticed that anime loves sexualizing school girls but the school girl uniforms i see are extremely young kids (makes me look at anime diff now). I was shocked to find out the age of consent is actually 13. Which would mean technically in this game she's doing nothing wrong legally. Now I thought the joke in this post was funny. I was extremely surprised to see everyone arguing. Kamoshida got a palace because of how twisted he was an he technically didnt have consent. He took everything.

  49. Hate to correct you but Japan as a nation hasn't bothered to raise the age of consent nationally because all the individual prefectures have already done so and there isn't a point to it because prefecture laws trump the national ones.

  50. The age of consent is wrong then lmao. What the laws are in a certain place doesn't dictate people's moral principles. I don't think this ends the debate at all. Age regardless, there's a power dynamic in this relationship. Joker isn't just her student, she also could easily get him expelled because of his probation. Kamoshida is obviously worse but that's a pretty low bar.

  51. National age of consent is 13 for those under 18 via the Child Welfare Act**,** though the age of consent can vary locally by prefecture (usually raises it via obscenity/corruption of minors statute). It's basically so that two thirteen year olds don't get hit with a statutory rape charge because they decided to get frisky. That being said, Japan doesn't have a close-in age exemption/"Romeo and Juliet" law, so any 18 year old in a relationship with a juvenile (13-17 y.o.) can be charged. (This can also apply for two juveniles under the age of 13, but that's rlly rare.)

  52. Isn't it such that while that is the equivalent federal age the actual effective age is always 16 or 18 because every prefecture has it set higher than the federal one?

  53. Should we take the consent of 14 year olds into account? Have you ever talked to a high schooler? It’s wrong regardless of what Japanese law says. Totally fucked.

  54. The difference is a female teacher who you have a growing personal relationship over time, help fix her personal problems, and she has feelings for you and tries to not have a relationship while you are still a student but succumbs to your persistence,

  55. I mean to add to that she's only 21 [edit she's fucking 27 what] (compared to joker's 17, 18 in third semester) where as kamashida was in his mid 30s...

  56. This dude really believes that matters in a court of law…good mental gymnastics there my dude I can tell you watch a lot of anime, they’ve bred you well.

  57. Post like this always cracks me up. What about takemi? What about chihaya? Or ohya? I swear ppl wanna jump on Kawakami but forget half of the characters joker gets with are way older than him. Cuz if you think takemi is in her early 20s ur dumb.

  58. I'd say Kawakami is easily the most egregious though. She's Joker's teacher which means there is an inherent power imbalance there. Chihaya and Ohya are still very inappropriate but at least Joker could cut them out in a hypothetical situation where things went wrong.

  59. I don't think everyone does surprisingly enough. If everyone did this wouldn't have to be a big debate every single time where people have to really scratch their heads over whether Kamoshida is in fact, worse than Kawakami.

  60. These comments are something else. Please remember to separate fiction from reality before taking it more seriously than global warming.

  61. Why don't people get that it is on Kawakami to say NO. I don't care that Joker is into it or started it, it is Kawakami's responsibility to put a stop to it.

  62. Then if Kamoshida had left Ann and Shiho alone and instead had sex with a bunch of his groupies you would be fine with that as long as it was consensual?

  63. This. Kamishida was predatory AF. Your homeroom teacher is just trying to get by, you help her out, keep her secret, she falls for you. Typical high school romance

  64. Ok so I did some research and the age of consent in Japan differs based on the prefecture, Tokyo has a Youth Protection Law that makes it illegal for an adult to engage in sexual activity with anyone below 17. The game starts (9th of April) with Joker being 16 and ends (20th of March) with him already 17 or about to turn 17 in a few days cuz he can't be a second year if his birthday was after 1st of April. (I've heard somewhere it's "canonically" 10th of feb, but I dunno). Christmas and valentines should be safe for her... if you care, I don't 

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