Gun worship - Uniquely American.

  1. You seen those debates where people fire off like a million arguments so fast you can't make sense of it to try and inundate the opposition?

  2. And why is that always seen as an argument? Ok, so the things that more people do and use and spend much higher a percentage of their life in kill them more. So? Even if not, just because one thing kills more doesn't mean stopping another is not still a benefit. Breaking my leg hurt a lot, but that doesn't mean I won't take an Advil for my headache.

  3. They've got two different statistics mixed up. Up until very recently (2018 or so IIRC) there were more deaths in car accidents in the US than firearms deaths (suicide, homicide, justifiable homicides combined) per year, and of the firearms deaths about 2/3 are suicides. That's flipped, but it's still very similar numbers, and it's largely been due to car accident deaths going down fairly rapidly rather than there being more firearms deaths.

  4. There is actually studies that show any time a Dem is in office, NRA starts their propaganda, and their donations, as well as gun and ammo sales sky rocket. Every business and large political party does this. We use politics to keep people manipulated and confused.

  5. I have just come to believe that no real change will ever occur here because the people in power have the system set up to help the rich and the companies of the rich I.E. themselves. And they'll keep on spouting propaganda until the heat death of the universe getting reelected and changing nothing, so that the status quo continues because the the status quo helps them.

  6. They just leave that up to the ATF, because obviously there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a law enforcement agency dictating and rewriting the law in convoluted, counter-intuitive ways whenever they feel like it.

  7. IIRC, Democratic presidents don't WANT to take away guns. They want background checks, registration, and locked gun cabinets,

  8. I say the same thing everytime people are panic buying ammo and shit. To be fair though, this time Biden literally did say he was coming for the guns.

  9. It pisses me off because then it cost more for me to buy guns and ammunition. Don’t elect a democrat so I can afford to buy a gun and ammo.

  10. Gun fondlers and ammo-sexuals can hear an anti gun opinion being posted, and flock to it like a sirens call.

  11. Eh to be fair the second dude gave no counter-argument other than making fun of the other idiot and using “American” as an all encompassing generalized insult.

  12. It's not possible to be both socialist and fascist. They're mutally exclusive by dint of being at opposite ends of the left-right continuum. Right-wingers are deeply stupid.

  13. It's not just stupidity. It's actually a well-known manipulation attempt of the far-right. They try to rewrite history and twist the traditional left-right spectrum. They argue that "right-wing" means "pro freedom" whereas "left-wing" means "authoritarian". By that metric, fascism and socialism would be equally left-wing. Everyone who knows the basics of politics and history knows that this is bullshit, however, they manage to brainwash some people into believing that.

  14. I'm left of center, but I also see some validity in the horseshoe theory for the extreme ends of the political spectrum. When one goes far enough in either direction its easy to justify violently enforcing one's ideology.

  15. Not really. Socialism is mostly an economic system whereas fascism is a political system. You can have a socialist democracy the same way there can be a socialist fascist state. Imagine a nationalistic dictator who orders that all factory be seized and redistributed to the workers. Unlikely to happen, but also not impossible.

  16. “Joe Biden is a socialist” is one of the most confusing takes ever. He’s actually more Republican than most Republicans are these days.

  17. This, definitely. Biden was basically a compromise, he's center-right. Even someone like Bernie Sanders is basically left-center. Meanwhile, the "right," like DeSantis, Cruz, Abbott, MTG, and Boebert are so far off to the right it's astonishing.

  18. They generally didn’t because they weren’t allowed to own guns....this was at a time when there were numerous laws on the books preventing them from owning or leasing land or becoming citizens.

  19. Ugh. I fully agree with the second guy, but that first paragraph is insufferable. Those words were so clearly chosen to sound smart rather than to efficiently or effectively communicate. Some of it doesn't even make sense.

  20. Honestly this isn't even murdered by words material because while the first person didn't say anything intellectual neither did the second person. The second person just responded with attacks on the other person and claimed their points were invalid but did not actually come up with any points of their own to back it up. So it's basically just two idiots online with one trying to make themselves feel greater than the other.

  21. Perhaps it's smug and it's obviously wasted on it's target, but it does make perfect sense. (british person)

  22. Exactly my thought as well. American gun culture seems insane to me and I hope more people come to think that way too, but the

  23. Reddit is famous for that shit. Use "smart" words and you instantly win any argument. Meanwhile, if you saw 2 people argue like this in real life, you'd be wondering what the hell is wrong with the second guy to be talking like that

  24. it's actually a perfectly valid observation. Rape and murder laws don't criminalize ordinary people. Rape and murder are intuitively wrong; they're not illegal in order to discourage, but rather so we can remove dangerous people from society.

  25. They aren’t capable of coming up with a half decent argument. They have to take the gun law reform argument to an absurd level to even have a leg to stand on. The left wants to make stricter, formal laws that can be used to hold citizens, manufacturers, and sellers more accountable. The right doesn’t have a good counter to that so they start grabbing at stupid straws.

  26. The first one does have points of thruth though, the second just has you're a big baby boohoo-energy. Not convinced. Come with actual arguments instead of just dismissing points because you don't like them.

  27. The 'gun debate’ is one of the most disingenuous ones from the extreme gun nut side ever. They are not arguing in good faith and mostly talk in ‘tactics’. This person is just doing a Gish gallop of bullshit, a tactic. Like how every story on

  28. I would really love to see these folks come up with their own workable solution to things like suicides and mass shootings. We've been having this argument since Columbine and I still haven't seen anything from them that seems like a solution.

  29. I'm a sane, gun-loving gun owner, and have been for a large part of my life. I've heard the same pro-gun arguments you've listed, and I also think they're ridiculous.

  30. I am a leftist. I am from what most Americans would call a third world country in an attempt to discredit my opinion on this, if they and me got into an internet argument.

  31. Solution: Pass a law that makes manufacturers strictly liable for injuries caused by guns. Magically there will be fewer illegal guns on the streets, magically there will be a way to make sure teenagers aren't getting guns, magically there will be a way to prevent the mentally ill from getting guns. All the insurmountable problems to stopping gun violence will disappear.

  32. Reddit was mostly anti military until the Russia Ukraine War broke out. I watched a total shift happen in real time and all of a sudden most of reddit became glad we have the greatest military in the world.

  33. "cosmetic" I have both a California compliant AR15 and an M1A which is by default California legal and would be what most people call a "hunting rifle". The M1A isn't any more or less "assault like" because it has a sporter stock over a AR pistol grip, it's just considerably more ergonomical to have a pistol grip when you're doing other things like changing magazines; you can still do this with any other gun the same, it's just a little more finicky.

  34. An entire paragraph of insults without refuting a single point the OP made. Where is the murder?

  35. The fact that any of these morons think their stash of guns could stand up against a military drone is just laughable. They love to claim that they need them against a tyrannical government but I’m pretty sure they’d all be on the same side anyway

  36. The funniest thing is that they have lost every single one of their "battles against a tyrannical government" since the second ammendment.

  37. Yup. Old and/or overweight military cosplayers hoarding a couple of guns and calling themselves a "militia" vs an actual coordinated army with drones, tanks, jets, warships, satellite imaging, and access to everyone's telecommunications. Oh and nukes, don't forget the nukes.

  38. Yea, that was my thoughts as well. Even tho I am pro gun even I had trouble reading the first comment lmao. Then the second was equally lacking anything of substance and was just hurling insults while, like you said, clinging to ridiculous stereotypes in an attempt to dehumanize their “opponent”

  39. In 2020, 8000 people were killed by guns. It's a lower number than usual because we were in quarantine for most of it.

  40. In addition the majority of those gun deaths are suicide. Not violent homicides. And of the homocides, the vast majority are by handguns not rifles. Yet "assault rifles" are the only thing that coverage because of the emotional shock of their involvement in mass shootings.

  41. I’m a fan of good comebacks, and it was decent. but as an actual argument, the first post was a super general summarization of some strong arguments. The “murder” was just a spewing of insults that romanticized other countries. They make a comment about the op making a smug remark and then one of their own.

  42. How adorable. This guy thinks you can take on tyranny with a bunch of AK 47s. The thing is, if the military stands with the government, there is no hope for deluded people like this guy - and there are millions who spout this crap. And if the military stands with the people, the people won’t even need a pea shooter.

  43. Neither commenter said anything of value here. They have both written comments for the sole purpose of patting their own backs.

  44. "And in the end, as American democracy, like the American dream, lay shattered in the ruins of a once prosperous nation, it turned out that guns couldn't actually protect the nation from its worst threat: greed."

  45. The really sad thing is that America didn't really have a gun culture until the 1970's. The second amendment was interpreted vastly differently until then. Do a search for the revolt at Cincinnati if you want to see where the BS originally came from.

  46. Wish people would admit they want to own a gun because they think they’re cool. Not all this silliness about fighting the government.

  47. I bought my first gun earlier this year after the rhetoric from the far right ramped up recently. I’m trans and really want to not get hate crimed if it comes to it.

  48. You have posts where the people who talk shit about guns are posting on another post about how guns are good. Redditors go full tribalism, shit is bananas. People want guns leave them alone, people protesting about no more guns let them protest. Nothing is going to change, once both sides accept that then maybe y’all can have some avocado toast or whatever the fuck y’all into and enjoy each other. People can have different opinions, likes, dislikes and that’s their prerogative. Live and let live.

  49. I recently had an American fella chew me out here on Reddit because I mentioned school shootings -I was told I, and the likes of me, was actually the problem, due to us sensationalizing the killings by continuously talking about them

  50. Americans are fucking insane with their guns, but at the same time, having an entirely disarmed population is also a poor idea for the regular people. Im not saying we should have fucking heavy machineguns, but every human being has a right to defend itself from foreing or local aggressors.

  51. Everything the first poster said was correct. Everything the person who replied wrote was nonsense and coming from emotions, not logic or reality.

  52. Illinois and Chicago do have some tough gun laws. Gary, Indiana, a stones throw away, does not. A handful of stores in Indiana have actually had a disproportionate amount of guns recovered in Chicago crimes, and had multiple violations that the ATF did not crack down on.

  53. I’m a gun owner, owning assault rifles, shotguns and handguns, and I’m all for sensible gun laws. Universal background checks, fingerprinting, mental health red flag laws.

  54. Right? As if some asshat with a Glock (me) would stand a chance against the fucking US military. Are you kidding me? Their technology, comms, logistics, tactics, etc. are on another level.

  55. Not sure that's murdered by words. They didn't really say anything but an extremely wordy "nuh uh you're the dummy".

  56. russia can't beat ukraine, but american gun lovers think they can stand up to tyranny if it actually came? that argument is completely without merit and shows just how stupid they are. and stupid people with guns are always the first to be recruited by tyranical leaders, hence the exstence of militias in the US who support a clear facist like trump. show me a single militia that supports a democract even though there are plenty of democract gun owners.

  57. Yep, if there's one universal truth, it's that the United States has never had a problem fighting insurgents that are employing small arms and guerrilla tactics! 🥴

  58. Honest statement: I will voluntarily relinquish my guns when you can unequivocally guarantee that no other guns exist in this country that I would need to defend myself against.

  59. My favorite part about the gun debate is that every time gun nuts mention 2nd amendment, the chances are that they never actually read the constitution.

  60. Sentence structure and a quick internet search would explain that at the time of writing, regulated was understood to be in good working order. Such as a well regulated clock. The unorganized militia consists of all males between 17-45. Heller vs DC has established the 2nd A to be an individual right. Your entire premise is flawed.

  61. Regulated used to mean well maintained and in good working order. Not subjected to government oversight and limitations. Out of curiosity what do you think “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” means.

  62. A lot of responses here are saying that well regulated means in working order, which isn’t really true. Well regulated is likely referring to a militia which would be comprised of

  63. yeah i imagine if you told them they had to join a local or state militia to be able to have guns they’d be all over that. until they discover that “well regulated” doesn’t mean “do whatever the hell you want”.

  64. To be anti gun is to completely trust the state which in the US is downright foolish at best if not completely dangerous. You can be afraid of guns all you want. I’m personally going to be much more afraid of the American government doing what it does best which is enabling fascism and violently crushing working class movements

  65. Best of luck defending yourself against the full force of the American government with your AR15! I heard they perform well against unmanned drones.

  66. “Adult countries have found ways…” I felt that one. I constantly feel like my country is run by idiot hornet teens who think they have life all figured it out. It’s like watching us go through puberty.

  67. The sad part is these people are helping usher in the very tyranny they are so afraid of. They just aren’t smart or humble enough to see it.

  68. why do the crazies write such long post? I swear, it amazes me - every time the gun issue comes up, the nutballs have to speak their piece.

  69. I just think its different here. Other countries have less guns so they have less shootings. We have more guns than people and those are just registered fire arms. I dont think any joe shmo should be able to purchase a gun but then again wether the government is involved or not is besides the question. It doesnt take much to make a lethal weapon. And having your own available defense for it should be a un-deniable right/privilege, calling 911 and having a defense weapon at ready can literally change the circumstances between life and death, imagine defending your child against a active shooter. While i understand the arguement for getting rid of guns i also understand the arguement for keeping them. My personal take is, just let it be the way its been. The number of mass shootings in the US is outstandingly low in the grand scheme of things, its not frequent by any means. doesnt mean we should wave them off and forget about it of course there may come a time where we discover ways to better enforce policies to protect ourselves from said events but that times isnt now. We already have some absolutely outstanding policies that work great at capturing events before they happen, although you wont know or hear about them because its didnt happen which is exactly the point. My school had captured 2 students at different times who had a firearms in school and nobody knew. One kid didnt even make it off the bus. Wether plotted anything i dont know but it was caught which is the point that matters

  70. First of all, anyone who says "socialist fascist" like it means anything except gibberish immediately loses all credibility as someone who doesn't understand either term but has the belligerent ignorance to assume they know something they clearly don't.

  71. That's not clever. It made zero legitimate points and just spewed out insults. As always a reference to his dick. Because that's the usual. "Oh you like guns hurr durr I'm thinking about your penis." Generally throughout history a disarmed populace isnt for the benefit of the citizens. Your feelings dont supersede a persons right to defend themselves or property or family. Irrational fear of inanimate objects is usually seen as insane. But the people with armed security say it's ok on TV so by all means. Be afraid I guess.

  72. There's zero reason to respond to 2A cultists and people making emotionally charged 2A cult arguments with logic, reason, or carefully thought out points.

  73. Every single democracy on earth has some semblance of gun control (including us), gun control is not equivalent to "disarming" the population.

  74. The rate of legal gun owners committing crimes is not a pseudo logical defense. It's a very straightforward logical defense. To just ignore and invalidate it shows you're not interested in a logical argument.

  75. “Adult countries have found ways to move past barrel-exploding penis-surrogates you’re so in love with.” Is just 🤌🏽👏🏽

  76. About half of what they said was bullshit, and the other half wasn't necessarily false but wasn't coherent or relevant enough to constitute an actual argument. This person has never devoted any actual thought in to any of what they said here.

  77. The second person has the right of it, but someone once mentioned the scenario of "what if if 100 or so Proud Boys started murdering a bunch of people and the police are disinclined to stop them for... reasons" and I often find myself thinking about that.

  78. I saw a post from a gun subreddit on the front page and the top comment said owning a gun is a human right, and that is the most American brain rot thing I have ever seen/read. Owning a gun is a human right but access to healthcare and a good education is not, how tf does a person let alone an entire country convince themselves of that.

  79. That's nice. If you want any of my firearms you can be first in the stack coming through the fatal funnel of my front door. I do not debate hoplophobes.

  80. Gun culture in the US is absolutely toxic. The self professed “patriots” are the ones I trust the least. They drove about “mental health” with every mass shooting while totally oblivious to how unhealthy their obsession with firearms and the degree their fantasies of being snake to shoot someone but get away with it are. You are not supposed to want to use your gun, you are not supposed to want to have your person assaulted or your home invaded, you are supposed to dread the idea of it ever happening. Yet they absolutely salivate the the idea. It’s completely sick. And BTW the “elite” and “military industrial complex” they all claim to hate includes gun manufacturers, in fact gun manufacturers are absolutely loving the situation in Ukraine because they are making big $$$ thanks to it.

  81. Honestly I don't care what limitations, requirements or classes are put in place. As long as I can keep my weapons ill be happy. I've spent alot of time around guns growing up. Learning to handle them, clean them and use them. Its a fun hobby for me. And if you ask me it absolutely is part of American culture. Which is why we should practice much greater gun safety than we have now. America should be the gold standard when it comes to our gun owning community, and instead we are a damned joke. One that gets less funny with each headline.

  82. this moron is right Illinois does have strict gun laws, but the states of Indiana and Wisconsin that border Illinois have some of the laxest gun laws in the country, in those states you can buy an ar15 in a hardware store with minimal background checks, it is not Illinois fault it is their neighbors that are fueling the gun epidemic.

  83. Still waiting on the murder here.... dude is right on most points and the "murderer" just pretends like his own word vomit means something.

  84. What an interesting example to choose. I don't know which is more laughable, the implication that cars are unregulated or the idea that 99.9% of drivers have never broken a traffic law...

  85. Literally no one is proposing banning all guns. Every single Democracy on earth has some semblance of gun control (including us, including republican states).

  86. I've parttaken in some very good discussions here on reddit with owners and fans of firearms and the right to own them, who indeed could see the problems and issues with a modern city-scaped society and private gun ownership, and I have come to the very simple conclusion that it really is not the guns as much as it is the crazy. It is because of the crazy that you can't have your guns. It is because the crazy is in the way of responsible gun ownership and having a dialogue about the problems. Sure, have guns if you're so used to them but have laws to protect against misuse aswell, just as you have with cars. Stop referring to the constitution, it is not at all what was meant with it. Stop lying about 'the other side' for the fear factor. That is the crazy!

  87. So you need three different ways for ppl to kill each other combined to beat out gun related deaths? Cuz saying that each one is more than guns is just plain misinformation

  88. All those guns have not made the US a great society. It’s easy to find better societies elsewhere, and they don’t have such loose gun laws.

  89. Ok I’m gonna get flamed but both are bullshit. The first one is mindless fun worship and the second is just insults with no solution, complaining.

  90. People also don't realize that our natural ecosystem is reliant on guns to maintain healthy heard populations. There will always be logical arguments for and against guns. The problem is most of the time the people arguing aren't intelligent enough to be logical or it's one sided.

  91. From an outside perspective (aka not American and from a country with strict gun control), it's the total lack of control over guns that's baffling.

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