In which year did homosexual relationships become legal in the Middle Eastern countries?

  1. I think it’s misleading to say that gay relationships in Iraq are legal. While it’s technically true, in practice it’s not.

  2. This is the case in the majority of the world. The laws are rarely enforced and when they are it's usually for political reasons or the person was a pedophile. The Yemen executed someone for homosexuality in the early 2000s but the guy had kidnapped, rapped and killed a young boy so even if homosexuality was legal the execution would still have taken place.

  3. It's probably when it was de jure legalized, not de facto. It also makes sense because IIRC in Israel there has been a moratorium on persecuting homosexuals since the 50s, while the law itself was only repealed formally in 1988.

  4. Yes and no. All the persecution against the LGBTQ+ community doesn’t come from the government but rather other groups. I think we even had a parliamentary committee for LGBTQ+ rights a few years back. Hopefully there’s more progress in the coming years.

  5. Okay… but directly from your link: Iraq criminalises same-sex sexual activity between men and between women. Possible sentences are unclear, but the death penalty has been imposed on LGBT people. There is evidence of the law being enforced in recent years, and LGBT people are regularly subjected to discrimination and violence

  6. Well, for much of their history, the Jannisaries were supposed to be celibate, so they were still breaking the rules somewhat. :P

  7. No there was. In different periods of time with different laws gay sex was declared haram and even punishments were written. What's interesting is despite the time being so back and there was even law defined on this matter the punishments were never heavy, I read these laws and they were always compensation in money like 1 gold or 2 gold only if it is repeated the punishment started to get serious.

  8. Wasn't it illegal before the 1858 french-inspired criminal code as judges largely ruled according to Shari'a?

  9. Ottoman Turks were always open to homosexuality. They didn’t consider it gay to penetrate another man, the man being penetrated was considered the homosexual. Not sure who would be considered the homosexual in

  10. This is why I'd like to see a different version of the map which states in which year homosexual relationships became illegal. Or, for how many years since 2000 were such relationships illegal.

  11. When your the legal successor to the Roman and Greek Empires, of course gay rights is protected. So the Ottomans embraced the gayness of western empires before Europe. So screw France, German and Russian Empire who tried to be the new Rome.

  12. That's largely because they adopted a criminal code based on the french one, as did a big chunk of western Europe and latin america

  13. "In 2013, a Turkish vendor was charged with selling "immoral" DVDs because the DVD movies featured gay sexually explicit content. Judge Mahmut Erdemli from the court in Istanbul overturned the criminal charges. He ruled that gay sex is natural, stated that an individual's sexual orientation should be respected, and cited examples of same-sex marriages in Europe and in the Americas."

  14. Dont jump the gun compadre. A lot has changed since 2013. Back then pride parade was legal. Didnt the government recently demand Netflix, along with gulf states, to remove homosexual content? Who would have thought Ottomans were more secular than modern day Turkey?!

  15. Im assuming you're Turkish so i have this genuine question , which i cannot ask my classmates: how do you guys say ur country is bad and be so nationalistic at the same time? It really discombobulates my mind

  16. The Islamic values ​​of the Ottoman state were in some ways different from the stereotypes that come to mind today when Islam is mentioned. It was never strictly prohibited, including before 1858. Even miniature works of art showing homosexual relationships were published before 1858. Also, like the Roman Empire, they only regarded passive intercourse as homosexual, not active intercourse.

  17. One of the main reasons Arabs revolted against the Ottoman state was because they thought the Turks were betraying Islam and were headed towards secularism or further away from their version of Islam. They didn’t like how the Ottoman state incorporated Turkic identity and beliefs into Islam and the government. The Turks wanted a republic without tribe or religious considerations. Arabs wanted their tribal considerations and considered themselves superior to Turks because they considered themselves to be the true custodians of Islam. As Turks and the Ottoman state got more influenced by Europe, Arabs got mad that Turks were undermining the “Islam caliphate”.

  18. Ottomans increase the level of Conservatism after the 16th century. It falls again as we enter the 19th century. Even for that period, it is said that the Habsburgs increased the level of Catholicism, the Ottomans the Sunnism, and the Safavids increased the level of Shiism. For the Safavids, this made sense.

  19. I honestly assumed they were extremely conservative. My mom is touring Israel and Jordan next week, and the tour guide informed her that she will have to wear clothes that completely cover her arms and legs while there.

  20. Until a few years ago honor killings were legal. It was legal to be LGBTQ, but also legal for your parents to kill you over it. So, not really legal, not really chill.

  21. When it cones to tolerance Turks were ahead of the rest of Europe for centuries. It wasn’t until relatively recently that tolerance was even seriously talked about in the west.

  22. I think de jure in Northern Cyprus it was outlawed as late as 2014, a supposely EU region. And the caucausus states just outlawed it in rhe first years of the 21st century just to be accepted into the Council of Europe.

  23. In the Penal Code of 1858, which was put into effect in the Tanzimat Era and nullified the previous relevant legal rules, which all Ottoman subjects were obliged to comply with, there was no regulation regarding sodomy. Among the Tanzimat reforms, the Kanunname is based on the French Penal Code of 1810, and in France, laws that criminalize a specific sexual act have been repealed since 1791. Those who accept that sodomy has been decriminalized on this date, based on the absence of regulation in the Penal Code of Criminal Code.

  24. One of Turkey’s hotel cancelled a booked room for my two male colleagues. They are friends, but hotel don’t want to accommodate two men in one room.

  25. That is probably an illegal thing to do in Turkey. A hotel just cannot cancel peoples reservations because of their sexuality. İf those 2 sued the hotel they would probably win as far as I know.

  26. It is because most places in Turkey don’t like men without women. They have a policy that doesn’t allow men “damsız” basically without female company. So the men won’t harass the women guest. It is bad but you can blame the turkish men for it. Source: I work in the industry

  27. That has little to do with homosexuality - it's rather common for men to use the services of unlicensed sex workers in hotels to avoid suspicion. It's considered that not allowing "damsız" (dame-less) booking will limit that, since it's assumed that few men will ring up an escort if they are with their girl friends or girlfriends or wives.

  28. What was the location and did they actually say that, I have stayed with 2 other men before and most people who are in the city for work stay with their colleagues

  29. Why do islamic countries tend to be far more homophic on average? It seems like up until recently christian and islamic countries had around the same level of homophobia

  30. Islamic states are more conservative than Christian states. I assume the reason is that Christianity had to accommodate the already established political institutions left behind by the Roman empire. Meanwhile, Islam had to invent new institutions from scratch to unite the nomadic tribes of the Arabian peninsula. Thus, Islam is more intimately involved with the political and social order of society.

  31. They just respect religion more it's simple as that if the west think about Christianity like the middle east think about Islam it will be the same.

  32. Actually I would argue it was the other way around. Before colonisation these countries were MORE tolerant than the west, and post colonisation things swapped because these countries had been ruled by foreign dictatorships for 200+ years.

  33. This is horrifying reminder that one religion is going backwards, instead of progressive reform, it's going through regressive reform.

  34. Turkey is Muslim aswell btw, it's very easy to blame everything in a single think you dont like, but how about thinking a tiny bit further

  35. While the world is going through wars, crisis and crap, all westerners care about is gay rights and their gay assholes.

  36. there are fucktons of literature about gay sex in the ottoman era. a lot of educated men back then thought and scribed things like "fuck boys in winter, girls in summer". homophobia is a western thing lol

  37. "Homophobia is a western thing" he says, actively looking at non-western countries that banned being gay

  38. Not if you support him. A mob boss called Sedat peker even published gay group p*rn of a man from his supporters. What is illegal and legal are about what all mighty leader likes or dont likes.

  39. The map doesnt seem correct for Iraq. While there were relatively few anti-gay laws in Iraq after 1969 (relative to the middle east), there are several laws applicable against gays in post-Saddam Iraq since the law reverted to the pre-Bathist version after the invasion and later changes do not seem to have affected gay rights. In practice, there are even death squads against gays by some religious groups today, and there is a current push in Parliament to ban it.

  40. That's secretly what the Iraq war was about. Dick did it as a gift to his daughter. We went in and gave that country culture, an appreciation for art, tight tank tops, lady gaga, and doc martins.

  41. It is still the most progressive country in the Middle East after Israel in terms of homosexuals. The reaction to homosexuals in Turkey is more similar to eastern European countries such as Ukraine than Saudi Arabia. Not as accepting as the West, of course.

  42. I still find it wild that Jordan legalized gay relationships 3 decades before Israel. Of course, it was called Trans-Jordan at the time

  43. What "legal" means in the Middle East also depends on the specific country. It's not reinforced in Lebanon as you have a number of gay bars but it's still illegal on paper (or if you come from a really downtrodden district). And as someone already said, it might be legal in Iraq but still practically criminalized.

  44. 1858? that doesnt sound right. wasnt turkey under sharia law until 1924? i wouldve expected homosexuality to become legal under ataturk.

  45. Wait, it's been legal to do gay stuff in Turkey since 1858? I'm from that part of the world and it really really doesn't right at all. I need to look that up

  46. Google the Tanzimat reforms in the Ottoman Empire. After the Ottoman Empire ended and modern Turkey was created, we still didn’t have any laws punishing homosexuality.

  47. Turkey’s most popular singer is transgender. Her name is Bülent Ersoy. She suffered difficulty in the beginning, but she’s now regarded as a legendary singer in Turkey who is loved by the public. Her famous hit music is still listened to.

  48. If it is illegal at the moment or was illegal after the break up with ottomans it should not be dark blue

  49. No, not a technicality, outright legal. That's not to say gay people have excellent rights here - they can't adopt or marry or openly serve in the armed forces, but they're not going to be punished for being gay or having gay sex.

  50. Turkey is and was always very influenced by France, and because Franceade it legal, the ottomans eventually did aswell. Many seem to forget how tolerant the ottoman Empire was

  51. The Middle East (as used by racist media) only means “Muslim Countries” but in reality Cyprus is 100% part of it.

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