Why is David Kibbe's word on things put above all other opinions when it comes to the Kibbe system?

  1. Alright, so what I'm gathering then is that some people believe it's objective, some people believe its entirely subjective to Kibbe, some people think it should be official and 'orthodox' as you put it to avoid all possibility of mistakes, while others believe that there's something real and useful to this information whether it's KB approved or not. That would certainly make more sense. I was getting really turned around by all the "Yes it's objective, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't, well maybe it is" and that would make much more sense if it's a case of the community being split on the topic, or that even individuals were split on how they think about this and are figuring it out for themselves. Would you say that's accurate?

  2. It’s his work. So if you’re doing something that goes against what he says, no one will stop you, but whatever it is can’t be called “Kibbe” anymore. He doesn’t train people. He only provides guidance and feedback to DIYers. I would say he is most similar to Zyla, where he encourages DIY, but doesn’t train others to replicate what he does. He is more of an artist than a scientist.

  3. I think you are correct. What irks me is that this fact wasn't more upfront before I spent the time learning about this, because that's not at all what I was looking for. I don't want to be David Kibbe or conform to David Kibbe, I want the tools of knowledge that David Kibbe employs when doing his art, like how painters have different methods of creating depth and texture and form such that it gives off the impression you intend. Instead it feels more like learning how to repaint someone else's pictures using my own canvas and materials. That's fine if it's what you like to do, but it's not what I like to do and I wish that was more clear from the beginning when I first started researching Kibbe.

  4. The question in the title answers itself: Why is [person]'s opinion the most important regarding [system created by person]? Because it's his system, he created it.

  5. Is it really so odd to question this guy's authority? It's not a disrespectful thing, I think with how much emphasis this sub puts on his expertise it's an extremely important question to ask. To me, the mark of a good system is that it works whether the creator or any other person has direct involvement or not. I do not need to talk to the man who invented pasteurization in order to pasteurize milk, I just need to understand his thought process. If I want to paint sceneries, I don't need to talk to the man who invented things like forced perspective and focal points in composition. I can take the process, the system, and apply it independently of the person who thought it up first. I apply that same logic to anything I'm trying to learn. If I need a particular personality to verify things for me, then it's not a tool I find to be all that useful.

  6. I don't think there are other people than DK who can make verifiable true information about Kibbe. DK doesn't train people, so it is impossible to make sure that the information is correct. Almost all Kibbe content creators I know of have spread misconceptions about Kibbe in the past and are often biased against yang types, like typing a verified D and an unverified D/FN as gamines, because basically, they don't look like Tilda Swinton and there are pictures of them where they don't wear D(/FN) recommendations, or equating yin/yang to feminine/masculine, or saying FGs look like little/teenage boys, and FNs in glam like men in drag, where as Rfam and Gfam are portrayed to be superior in beauty and attractiveness to other types. No type in Kibbe is more beautiful, attractive, etc. than any other type and while it's fine to have subjective opinions on beauty and attractiveness, subjective opinions shouldn't be portrayed or implied as objective facts.

  7. At its core, Kibbe is an essence system and therefore can’t be compared to things like seasonal color analysis, fruit shape system, or other formula based style guides. The concepts of yin and yang are intuitive and depend on your personal perception of yourself, your clothing choices, your silhouette, etc. Other than height, there’s no concrete concepts in the system. It’s not meant to categorize people, it’s a personal styling tool that’s based on Old Hollywood archetypes. Kibbe has exercises that are available for use to determine your type, and he verifies people using those exercises, but none of it is 100% set in stone. Kibbe has gone back and changed his mind multiple times about celebrities that he verified.

  8. I think a big factor is also that Kibbe says you can really only be sure of someone’s ID in real life. I imagine video must also work (how else could he type Marilyn Monroe or Elizabeth Taylor?), and so I think him saying that only you can type yourself is to discourage us typing each other from only photographs, as it’s not truly enough visual information.

  9. becuase seasonal color isn’t subjective, you either look good in a certain color or you don’t. With Kibbe it’s much more complicated. You can have two completely body twin celebs, or even regular people, who are different types. That’s why only he and yourself can tell. And besides he’s a stylist, it’s his job lol

  10. Disagree about color preferences being objective. Different color systems aim for different results (clarity, matching, 'brightening', etc).

  11. Oh yeah I'm not doubting he is qualified. More I was confused about why he and he alone was qualified, rather than saying that anyone with professional experience as a stylist is qualified. I'm confused about the body double thing too. If it's entirely subjective, then how can anybody be wrong? Or right? Because I definitely see a ton of talk about right and wrong typing, and how typing relates to bone structure and how your body holds its fat and so on. The idea that two people could have the exact same body but still be different Kibbe types seems to defeat the whole purpose of learning all this stuff about bodies and their form in the first place.

  12. The short answer is that David’s work is a product like any other. You can go to the store and buy the brand-name product (or the off-brand version if you desire), or you can make it yourself using the recipe, but even if you follow his recipe to the best of your ability you can’t sell your version and call it his. You also can’t make up your own recipe and brand it as his. It’s his brand and his product, and not everyone will like it or need it, but it’s still his to do what he likes with it and I think that should be respected.

  13. basically i agree with you that he isn’t the only person who can type someone. but the answer is that he invented the system and it changes frequently, because it is not a science it’s just a fun fashion thing based on some astute observations of how fabrics drape and fit on the body. there isn’t an official kibbe course — the closest is the SK facebook group. there is a lot of misinfo online which is not based on either the book or facebook posts he himself has said. his word is “gospel” because the system centers on him. it’s too complicated to understand without studying, so it needs figures to lead it, and the guy who made it is still alive so why not him?

  14. We’ll I’m a Kibbe rebel, and. PhD scientist. IMO your take is absolutely correct, if it’s a fashion rule it should be a rule that could be implemented by anyone. But in Kibbe world, there’s a serious difficulty in translating 1980s fashion advice to today, and given the internet people interpreting as they will, it’s a free for all. IMO DK didn’t actually invent the system and the crowdsourcing internet sometimes gets it more right than he does. I’m hoping that one of the Reddit geniuses writes the next book that takes the system to a new level based upon the feedback from Reddit

  15. Mm. I certainly don't want to be starting anything, but the more I dig into this subject the more I come to feel like Kibbe isn't as much about teaching me how to be better at styling using objective measures that can be replicated, and is more rather about replicating a very specific sense of style of a very specific man. No disrespect to David but that's not something I'm really all that interested in doing, and if that's the case then I wish it had been more transparently so from the beginning. I'm not sure I would have sunk all this time into this if I had known that.

  16. I don’t understand the point of this. You are literally talking about the KIBBE system and you are implying that the people who are following the word of the guy that the system is literally named after are dumb. The reason why people listen to him is because they think there is value to his opinion and it’s helpful to them. If you don’t think that, there is absolutely no reason to follow the system he created and there are so many other systems to choose from, nobody is forcing you to be here.

  17. If we are talking celebrities, or typing other people, I believe it has to do with the fact that the community at large leans very heavily into stereotypes. Romantics must be brick houses, Dramatics must waif-like, Naturals need to be broad-shouldered…etc. There is so much more to what it means to be a specific ID and Kibbe has yet to train anyone to apply his teachings in that way. At this point, he helps people learn how to identify themselves, after realizing what they need clothing to do for their bodies and then creating looks that work in harmony with all aspects of that person.

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