I can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact that virtually everything in the PC could have been determined within days of the crime.

  1. What is so surprising to me is the fact that the FBI was involved pretty quickly. I unfortunately somewhat expect local Delphi PD to not be prepared to handle this type of crime and mess it up. But the fact the FBI didn't put the pieces together is mind boggling.

  2. Don’t forget the Indiana FBI office is the same office that messed up the Larry Nassar investigation into the USA gymnastics team

  3. That is what I keep coming back to. I grew up in a small town, so I can see local LE missing major info, but I expect more from the FBI.

  4. Wasn't the FBI the jurisdiction that was pushing the RL theory? There were always rumors that the feds and locals were butting heads about the direction to go. I never knew which was which though. I think the RL angle at first, and later KK, gave them tunnel vision to never look back into the archives to find the name RA. There was just too much against both of those that it was easy to get sidetracked by them. Most people here were sidetracked by them too.

  5. Check into the Dr Nassar case with USA Gymnastics and it would tell you the competency of the local FBI. They ignored evidence of sexual abuse for years which allowed him to abuse hundreds more. If you get a chance watch the Documentary Athlete A, it’s disturbing what happened to these girls and how many looked the other way.

  6. This is an excellent point - some of my family lives in Delphi and was just saying at thanksgiving how frustrating it is that people blame local LE when FBI, state agencies, and Marshall’s have literally been there off and on and they see their cars at the station all the time for the WHOLE 5.5 years. It’s not like fbi came, missed it or got hung up on Ron Logan, then left…..this case has had steady assistance from more able agencies than they would have been the entire time.

  7. I’m kinda late to this but fucking thank you what the actual fuck how the fuck did this shit happen?! Mind boggling! i’m an attorney and cannot fucking fathom how the police fucked this up!! He literally placed himself on the fucking bridge at the same fucking time as the girls and matches the description in 2017, and it doesn’t sound like the police even did a follow up interview! AND, based on his recent letter to the judge requesting counsel, it sounds like he’s never gotten a lawyer before, which means he didn’t even fucking lawyer up when he spoke w police in 2017!! When he told them he was there! Cops could’ve asked him for anything! I am sorry for my language but holy shit, inept doesn’t begin to cover it. 5 YEARSSSSS and the police are sitting on a pdf of “Interview of Richard Allen - 2/15/2017” that some dumbass spoke w him and wrote up a memo, “Local named Ricky Allen reports he was on the bridge at the same time on the same day as the girls” and then did absolutely nothing with it and then on top of it, no one else in the entire investigation apparently went through all of the file materials to find the fucking memo for another 5 years?! And this fucker walked for almost 6 years while those kids families suffered. I hope they sue the shit out of that police dept. Incompetence doesn’t even begin to cover how massively fucked up this is. Wow. Just wow.

  8. All those three letter government agencies are just as inept and corrupt as the small towns. They were probably there hoping to find a pedo ring they could compromise for their own spiteful goals.

  9. It's disappointing that the FBI seem to have overlooked all of this as well. From what I understand, the FBI was there for a limited time to help support the investigation, but local LE maintained control over the investigation.

  10. The prompt FBI involvement actually isn't a mystery - they have been specializing in kidnapping cases since the famous Lindbergh kidnapping back in 1932. At one time they might have hesitated if it was unlikely that the victim or perpetrator had crossed state lines, but no longer (the agency rarely rushes into a murder case).

  11. Exactly. It’s so obvious I am very disappointed in local LE, but like you said….the FBI too? I think the online crime community could’ve done a much better job. I suspect this comedy of errors was due to the influx of thousands of tips causing chaos, but I’d expect the FBI to know how to deal with that or know who to ask.

  12. So…Libby was being catfished by a lying child porn fiend but happened to get brutally murdered in the middle of the day by the clerk at cvs. What is going on in that corner of the state?

  13. The clerk at CVS bought information from the catfisher so he could target at least one of the girls specifically. Catfisher is a CP peddler and CVS Clerk is one of many clients, and murder wasn't necessarily the initial intent. My theory.

  14. The whole notion of a small, close-knit community where nothing bad ever happens has always been complete bullshit. Some of the absolute worst crimes happen in these small towns.

  15. I think its an unfortunate coincidence. I work on child abuse and sexual assault cases. Almost every girl with a snapchat their age probably has at least one creepy interaction, if not a full blown creep. I was once a teen girl online too and there are so many creeps out there. Also snapchat uses location data so this can explain the proximity. Many people still think KK is involved on this sub so honestly I don't blame the FBI for going down that rabbit hole .....but for 5 years??? I believe RA did this, alone.

  16. FYI for everyone here: "child porn" (or CP) is no longer an acceptable phrase to use because to make "porn" you must be able to give consent, which children are not. The correct phrase is "child sexual abuse material" or CSAM.

  17. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that this oversight wasn’t the result of just some small town, inexperienced LE… the FBI, ISP and possibly even GBI were all involved…. And NO ONE caught this?! Mind blown.

  18. That’s what’s so puzzling. As pathetic as it is, I can ALMOST see inept cops thinking, “the CVS guy who rings me up for my Cialis every month could never do this… he’s not a monster”

  19. Yeah I am struggling with the fact that we had knowledge of someone who met the description, was there at the exact time of the murders with a weird excuse for why he was there, and looked like the guy, and somehow he wasn't the TOP of the suspect list from Day 1.

  20. I can understand the conservation officer's original report not making it into the right hands. What I cant understand is why the conservation officer didnt attempt to do anything. Five years of them asking for tips, did anyone see anything, and the conservation officer didn't speak up about the guy who literally put himself at the scene?

  21. I was about to make a similar comment. The case had lots of media coverage, so the conservation officer who spoke to RA after the murders would have been constantly confronted with it. Did that never ring a bell for him? Did he never seek out the investigating authorities again to ask them to look at this particular guy? Or did he even do so and was ignored once again? Blows my mind.

  22. Yes agreed. Like I don’t want to talk shite here but wouldn’t that officer kinda be forced to immediately connect the dots and ESPECIALLY after the sketch and literal video? Like… there is no way you don’t think of him immediately and try to push it up. Unless RA knew the guy in some capacity, which I wouldn’t put it past this small town, tbh.

  23. All they had to do is white board everybody who was on the trail that day; their names AND what they were wearing, BEFORE they released the video to the public. I just can't believe they didn't ask what everybody was wearing that day since they had the video, in their back pocket, to refer back to.

  24. No doubt! And also something that puzzles me so much: if they had witnesses who saw the guy and if the had a guy who said he was on that local that day, WHY didn't they put the guy(RA) on a line and ask for the witnesses to see if they could recognize him?! Like height, weight, body building, etc.

  25. I agree, and can’t see how this could happen. This was a HUGE deal during those initial days. How anyone, particularly someone taking witness statements, could not draw big attention to a lone middle-aged man on the trails is beyond me. Even if he seemed innocent ti the CO, I feel just the scope of the crime would make everyone on heightened alert of any possibilities.

  26. It must have. But also, why wouldn’t the conservation officer follow up, or just reach out to their boss to reach out for follow up. Ir place another anonymous tip even.

  27. Why didn’t the person who took RA’s report bump it up to his superiors as high priority?! Can he please be fired

  28. Agree because this is the only scenario that clicks all the other facts into place, assuming the investigators aren't incompetent.

  29. Interesting that we finally know he was seen bloody and muddy. Hopefully, their blood is in his vehicle. Amazing that that piece of information has stayed quiet for 5 years.

  30. I keep seeing people comment that “he” was seen muddy and bloody. A guy was seen. No one ever said “Richard Allen” was seen muddy and bloody. The witness saw him from her car as she was driving.

  31. Oh man, that dude is such a grandstanding spotlight lover. All the emotional speeches seemed so inauthentic. And it turns out that RA told them he was there, with the same clothing as BG, at the same time. Billy bad ass Doug gets up there with the whole “WE WILL FIND YOU” shtick and RA has to be thinking “uh, I pretty much turned myself in to y’all.” What a joke.

  32. I couldn't even bring myself to comment, I am dumbfounded and feeling angry at the behest of the families, but your comment was the one that resonated the most. This is as simple as it gets. Means, motive, opportunity, intent. All there and only for RA no other possible subjects were even in the bridge! I really am shocked!

  33. My idea is that the report from the conservation officer was somehow lost or overlooked and just didn’t end up in front of the detectives but was still put in their files. I just can’t wrap my head around them knowing about RA but not completely clearing him. Maybe I’m just naive

  34. I agree. RA also called the building he parked at something different, so it may not have even been realized that his reference didn’t exist and he was the one they were looking for being parked at the old CPS building. Also, I think they are focused on someone trying to AVOID being talked to, caught in a lie, etc., not someone that seemed liked an honest citizen coming forward. It just looks so clear spelled out in PCA….4 witnesses see only one adult male in this time frame, male came forward corroborating the witnesses, yet they were still looking for a mystery man. In hindsight they look ridiculous, but we don’t know (at least I don’t) how evidence/interviews get organized for investigators to look over. Human errors are hard to avoid, sadly.

  35. I'm starting to believe the 4chan 'Richard' leaks were legit. And that it was well known he was on the bridge that day, he wasn't hiding it. I bet he got overlooked due to small town politics.

  36. I fell into this too, so now I feel like I need to correct it. The PCA doesn't state it was a conservation officer. It simply says officer. So, while the reports of it being a conservation officer seem credible, the PCA does NOT specify it when outlining the tip narrative.

  37. I agree! My question is why didn't this conservation officer go in person to deliver this tip OR why didn't he speak to his superiors about this "encounter". What made this officer think this wasn't a valuable tip?!! As months passed by and this officer saw the BG video didn't he recognize or remembered this tip?! This is pure negligence from LE and I hate to critique them but I don't have another word to describe them.

  38. It seems they had 2 rounds of resets. 1st was after RL. 2nd was after KK. If I were to guess, they had an astronomical amount of tips and interviews with leads. Anything that was labeled unfounded was the bottom layer of quality. The 1st time they reset, they likely went through the 2nd layer of "well -founded" and "valid" tips and interviews. That led them back to KK. When they hit a dead end with KK they decided to revisit everything including the "unfounded" tips and interviews.

  39. I'm with you on this but I doubt he was cleared, even Doug Carter said no one was cleared. Additionally, I think that LE received an enormous amount of information that probably hindered the ability to get a clear picture of RA. If that is true, then LE reviewing all information was a good move, albeit a bit late.

  40. Okay, sure. I could buy that excuse, but then I wonder what the hell the detectives were doing for 5 years, if not going through the old files over and over again, hoping they find something they missed. Because in the meantime, they managed to ruin a few peoples lives due to sniffing in the wrong direction and not relenting soon enough. Granted, they weren’t all good people, but they didn’t deserve this shit being laid on them when they were innocent of the murders.

  41. Nope, you are not alone. I was actually just about to make a post saying exactly this. People seem to think that in February 2017, LE made a white board listing every person known to be at the bridge, and that that somehow Richard Allen's name sat there staring at them for over 5 years. It's clear that after the initial contact with the conservation officer, no one talked to RA until October 2022. We know many of the names that would have appeared on such a list. FSG, DP and the girl he was with, the young witnesses at the Freedom Bridge, Cheyenne, DG. We learned the existence of others that we don't know the names of. There is no doubt in my mind that LE followed up with every one of these people they would have put on this list. In my opinion, RA wasn't added to the list the day to day investigators had until October 2022. He should have been on that list, but he fell through the cracks. LE didn't have him on the list and overlooked him or ignored him. The tip just never made it to the right people. Thankfully, the report did make it into the case files, and thankfully, someone going through those old reports came across a name they had never seen or heard before and looked into it.

  42. Yeah, I think people need to understand that the fact that a conservation officer received the tip made it a lot less likely to make it in front of the detectives. It probably floated around awhile before making it's way into the case files. I'd like to know who this conservation officer is and get his side of the story.

  43. That's the only conclusion I can come up with. Anything else is far too incompetent for any police force, idc how small. Especially with FBI resources. Only thing I can think of is they just now got this information and one conversation later the arrest was imminent. Should've/could've happened years ago unfortunately

  44. Todd Kohlhepp kept Kala Brown chained inside a shipping container for two months. He killed her boyfriend. He raped her repeatedly during that time. Kala had told multiple people where she was going. Both her cell phone and her boyfriend’s cell phone pinged on the property where they were found. For 8 fucking weeks in the heat of a South Carolina summer, Kala was raped and tortured. When they finally went and got her, the police had the audacity to pat themselves on the back and call it “good old-fashioned police work”.

  45. This is a level of incompetence that I find just unbelievable. Really anyone with access to the information (bullet, video, people on the trail that day) could have wrapped this up within a few days…

  46. I wonder if Delphi Investigators knew RA from the pharmacy and it subconsciously made them biased. Maybe he was a familiar face and they saw him as an upstanding member of the community. I see the local pharmacy staff every month for refills. I’m on a first name basis with a few of the workers; one friendly guy gives my kids lollipops. Delphi is a small town, they got tunnel vision and didn’t see what was right in front of them. Just a thought. I’m grasping at straws because I’m completely bewildered.

  47. Do you think a major reason prosecution was so against unsealing the PC was due to the blatant incompetence of LE? The “other suspect” theory seems a little far fetched.

  48. This is the problem everyone is having right now. This looks like career-ending laziness, incompetence, and simple stupidity. It’s unfathomable to me that they had a short guy in a blue jacket place himself on the bridge that day and he went completely unbothered-with for almost six years.

  49. I hope we are missing something. Because if not, it looks real bad for all the LE involved with this case. Puts a pit in my stomach just thinking about it.

  50. You definitely aren't wrong. Most of us in this sub (and the world) are baffled by how this took so long.

  51. I think had I been in charge and running that circus, I might have screwed something up too. It was a lot. But theses are some amazing flubs. The sad but redemptive take away is: Without Libby where would we be? Maybe he was a one off killer, or maybe in 10 years we woulda been looking at a string of abducted teenage girls and women walked off trails.

  52. The Murder Sheet reported that it was a clerical error by a citizen employee working for the FBI that misfiled the initial report. My question is wouldn’t the officer that interviewed RA remember this interview and say, “Hey. That was the guy I interviewed!” After viewing the Video?

  53. Actually I think he admitted to being there and the clothes in case someone saw him and to explain it away right away ! If he didn’t and a witness recognized him that would be worse ! Unfortunately I think LE and FBI took it as your saying and as he hoped like why would he do that if he was guilty ? It’s not the first time that’s happened in a case either so they should of known that ??? I don’t get it either

  54. Ive always said this from day one. These cops are fucking disorganized fools. Y'ALL HAD VIDEO AND AUDIO OF THE MAN! NOW WE LEARN HE CAME FORWARD AND SAID HE WAS THERE! FFS!

  55. I imagine they will conduct an internal investigation of their investigation (earning themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in overtime during the process) only to find there was no wrongdoing on their part.

  56. I would also keep in mind that what we are seeing in the PCA is everything they deemed relevant enough to establish probable cause for his arrest. We aren’t seeing everything they had. The information in the PCA is 1/1000 of the information they were dealing with at the time. Only viewing tips and evidence relevant to RAs arrest will naturally paint a picture that the perpetrator was obvious because it ignores any and all conflicting tips and leads from the time. Resources get split among leads and eliminating suspects or following up on promising leads that don’t pan out isn’t ineptness, it’s quite literally textbook police work.

  57. Regarding the bullet, there is no gun registry so there's no way to tell who in town owned a .40 unless they just started asking around or checked social media (bad idea because the suspect might get alerted and get rid of the gun).

  58. And no description of a dark colored car that several witnesses felt was suspicious in nature. That seems like something important you would want to share with the community.

  59. I can't imagine how, if they really were working so hard on the case all these years, nobody noticed this until now. Isn't the definition of working hard on a case being that they're poring over the files and evidence every day all the time? They weren't doing something as simple as looking over the facts? There's no way they were if they missed this for so many years

  60. Yeah, all the witnesses reported a short stocky guy in a blue jacket and jeans. INCLUDING who ever said they saw a muddy and bloody man in a blue jacket and jeans walking away from the trail. You would think anyone in Indiana that even remotely works in LE would be told they are looking for a guy stocky short and had on a blue jacket and jeans. Every witness saw one guy. So here comes RA a sort stocky man who says I was there at that exact time AND I had on a blue jacket and jeans. WTF you’d think every alarm in that small town would go off. I can’t imagine this is a high crime area. Probably the only other crime in Delphi that year was Mr. Jones cows got out again. I bet they caught who ever opened his fence. If this wasn’t so horrible it would be funny and no one would believe it.

  61. Yes, it took them from October 13 to Oct 26 to interview, search, and arrest RA (with all old info). Imagine if they had done that immediately following the crime.

  62. Since RA has admitted to being on the bridge that day while also owning AND wearing the POI clothing, has he or hasn’t admitted to being the man recorded on the girls cell phone video?

  63. I don’t think he’s saying he’s BG. Cause he doesn’t say he saw Libby and Abby. He admits to seeing the OTHER group of girls who definitely saw him and were able to give pretty good descriptions of him. But if he admitted to being BG then he’d have to admit to seeing the victims and likely being the male voice ordering them down the hill. He stops just short of that. His story stops with him on the bridge. Watching fish.

  64. RA attorneys state he strongly denies killing the girls. Since the video has the man ordering the girls down the hill, presumably at gunpoint, I don’t believe he did or will admit to being the person in the video.

  65. He admitted he had on the clothing folks described, but that wasn’t learned until Oct this year. But if he’s willing to state this five years later, I can’t see how he would not have said the same within days had LE followed up on who any idiot should have assumed should be person of interest number one. RA handed himself to LE within days of the murders. He would’ve gotten off had he not.

  66. I’m interested to find out if the clothes in the water south of the bodies has dna usually the only reason someone puts it in there. A sexual assault doesn’t mean he physically touched the bodies he could of touched clothes only

  67. Yeah this gives me pause as well--how did he avoid leaving any DNA at the scene that day? I assume he raped at least one of them, I just can't imagine sex (rape) wasn't a motivating factor.

  68. Because they were focused on RL and KK. The Klines home was raided 2 weeks after the murders and Then a few weeks later searched RL property.

  69. Hindsight is 20/20, but imagine once they had the incriminating video, they take a screenshot of BG removing the background. Then take this image and double back to ALL their witnesses, including BG, asking them if they saw him whilst their memory was still recent. Witnesses say, that’s him. RA might’ve said, “Yea, that’s me”. BOOM!

  70. Devil's advocate: Correct me if I'm wrong, but at this point we don't even know if the information about Allen ever got in front of the detectives, correct? If it didn't, then that could be the fault of the parks officer or whoever, rather than the local police, the FBI or the ISP.

  71. I don’t think you are playing devil’s advocate. I think you make a good point. We don’t know enough about RA’s tip to start screaming incompetence. Cases get solved like this years later all the time-by reviewing files, tips, etc. Someone else said that is not like LE was staring at a photo of him on a big whiteboard saying nope, not him. The information about his clothing is from this year, not 2017. People are saying things like the CO took Allen’s statement in person and that RA admitted to being on the bridge wearing the same clothes as BG when that just isn’t the case.

  72. It shouldn’t be considered “playing devil’s advocate” to simply be a rational person, but here we are. Following true crime discussion online can be downright painful sometimes. The amount of people willing to start wailing about police incompetence simply because everything hasn’t been spelled out clearly to them yet is just… depressing.

  73. If the info about Allen never made it to detectives, that’s the proof of the incompetence. I mean honestly. How is it even slightly possible???

  74. I agree. I think this is part of the reason they wanted to seal this stuff until trial, because it would expose all the incompetence of the police in this case. Very sad.

  75. Sealing this stuff and trickling out info seems to have just increased coverage and attention to the case. Friday: We’ve made an arrest but aren’t saying anything until our press conference on Monday. Monday: We aren’t releasing anything Today: we have a ballistic match

  76. They had the video from the get in which one of the girls said “gun” as he approached and ordered them down the hill- that combined with him saying he was there at that time and deceiving his clothing as same as BG, wouldn’t that be PC to search his house then? And then find the gun ( which they already had the bullet from)? Yeah, it’s hard to understand how this went 5 years with no movement towards RA.

  77. I swear it feels like they should have looked at the caliber of the round, and run checks on everyone at the bridge and see who owned a .40.

  78. From what I am gathering from the PC Affidavit is that perhaps this is an accumulation of information that was not readily available just days after the murder. As others have mentioned perhaps the admission of RA in the area on that day was not in the hands of the investigators. With that said realization this shouldn't have taken almost 6 years. I still believe that RA was at the top of the suspect list for most of the investigation but they didn't have enough details to execute the arrest, let alone get a conviction. After all, the end goal is to convict the killer and we'll see if it was our boy Ricky during the trial. I sure hope that the unspent round matched to a gun is foolproof evidence. Perhaps there are fingerprints or DNA on that round as well, who knows at this point? Not all evidence is in the Affidavit.

  79. If he was top of the list I would have to expect them to at least interview him. If they were worried about him destroying evidence, they kind of screwed up in October because they interviewed and it took another 4 days until the search warrant, he could have destroyed/hidden the evidence even if under surveillance.

  80. The only thing I can think is they were so focused on RL as the prime suspect, the RA info got buried in a huge pile of leads. I am sure there were others in the park that day. From the info in the PCA it looks like they did use cell data to determine some of the people in the area and questioned them, RA included. Depending on when he was questioned perhaps not all the evidence in the PCA had been discovered and therefore his statement forgotten? Either way it's shoddy detective work to blame.

  81. I think he went to LE to explain himself. He had to have known that he was seen. But the ineptness of LE in this case is off the charts. This case could go down in history as the perfect example of how not to do it.

  82. Totally agree. There’s another thread here I wrote my full WTF post on, but I see this as one of the most insane oversights ever. I think they just could not wrap their heads around one of their own locals doing such a heinous thing, and it biased their hunt.

  83. Exactly! This is what I’ve been thinking too. There’s literally no way to cover up LE’s incompetence. I can’t think of another crime in history where they have audio and video evidence, credible eyewitnesses testimony that matches, AND the killer placing himself at the scene and they still didn’t arrest him for almost 6 YEARS. And to top it all off, RA wasn’t smart enough to get rid of the coat or gun. I have no words.

  84. I’ve also read that it’s not uncommon for an offender to insert themselves into an investigation- as a way of keeping tabs. Knowing that makes it even more shocking (at least to me) that they didn’t take a closer look right away

  85. I have a feeling that RA was not working alone, there was an accomplice (dressed in all black man from the affidavit) who stabbed the girls when RA’s gun jammed. Leaving DNA that didn’t match RA and that confused detectives. Just my theory though, I’m very curious to see what LE thinks.

  86. The piece that makes me believe they really fumbled the bag is LE instantly had the minute-by-minute timeline from every witness including RA. No deviation. A bullet with technology available in 2017 to match a gun, actual video of the killer

  87. I could understand them overlooking RA if say this crime happened at a heavily trafficked place like a mall and LE had 100’s of potential suspects who were there at the time but they literally had one, one adult male in a stack of one. One who put themselves there at the trail at that time, to ughh watch fish???

  88. If this information that BG reported about himself early on was misplaced, well why didn't the person who at least took the report come forward and say something at the time! Like, hey, whatever happened to the report I took regarding this RA guy? This whole thing is just unbelievably mind boggling in the extreme!

  89. Think of it this way... what are the odds that any murderer would admit that they were at the location of the crime, at the same time as the crime occurring and wearing the same type clothing as the POI? I mean, c'mon, that's your alibi? Who does that? It's so obvious in-your-face that it can't possibly be this easy. They say if things are too good to be true then it probably is. He either wanted to be caught or was trying to confuse them with the brashness and audacity of his claims. I don't know if he's that clever. And I don't even think that would've been a clever move in the first place. He should've been caught right away.

  90. I got the impression that the questions about the clothes and the gun were from Oct 22. In 2017, he mentioned he was there to a CO (possibly while the girls were still missing) and after they were found, the CO called in the tip and the tip was lost or overlooked. I think he was questioned in Oct 22 and that’s when he answered all the questions.

  91. They had someone who admitted to being on the trail when two girls were murdered. They had a small pool of people to either eliminate or investigate (match ballistic evidence and video).

  92. It’s important that we all understand the difference between suspecting someone and actually being able to make an arrest. When you get there, a lot of the “Why?” questions suddenly have an answer.

  93. i agree, i feel like maybe they knew he was a suspect but didn’t have the connecting pieces to be able to get a warrant etc - and those pieces wouldn’t necessarily be in the PCA

  94. Ahhhh yeah, they just wanted a free trip to France. Much more interesting than the local pharmacy, you must admit.

  95. Maybe the item they were looking for in the river after kk was taken out of custody was the gun that matched the bullet casing?

  96. Read the probable cause. It states that they obtained RA's gun. They ran microscopic forensics on it which apparently matched the cartridge that was found between the girls bodies.

  97. You’re forgetting they need a lot of evidence or at least collaborate a strong enough case to convict him. Believe it or not, it’s not a crime to walk on a bridge or wear a blue jacket. Even if the video was clear enough to identify him instantly, the video wouldn’t have been enough to convict him with murder. It could’ve possibly been enough to convict him with kidnapping though depending on what else is on the video. Apparently he didn’t leave much else evidence at the crime scene such as his own DNA.

  98. The goal is to bring him in for questioning. If he refuses to cooperate you get suspicious and focus your resources on him. This is basic detective work.

  99. Right but no additional evidence was uncovered recently that wasn’t available back then, correct? Like, they were able to get a search warrant last month just based on what they had on him (witness statements, his own statements) but they had those things in 2017, so couldn’t they have theoretically gotten a search warrant and found then gun/bullet then?

  100. Yea but an arrest is one thing and conviction another. And I can’t see what is in the PC that could not have happened within days of the murder.

  101. I am surprised there hasn't been more discussion surrounding the "seen and heard" part. Made me wonder if there is clearer/closer footage than what was released. Although that likely would have led to the correct suspect sooner, so maybe not. I'll be very interested to see what additional evidence comes out at trial.

  102. The fact that police are inept in so many cases should cause alarm for the public. They should be held to higher standards and not just had their ineptitude swept under the rug because what “cops will be cops”?

  103. I was stunned when I read the report. So many clues pointing to one particular man. So many witnesses, one close enough to talk to him and see him sneer. And only one short man seen at the bridge by all of them and the suspect even said he was there wearing the same type of clothes as BG at the same time as BG. I wonder what time his wife returned from work. Me thinks after 4 pm. kind of hard to explain away the mud and blood. And I wonder at what point the suspects wife read this report. I have been married for 37 years to a kind law abiding man who I am sure would never harm anyone but if he was ever arrested and I was presented this report it would be hard for me to tune it out, especially the bullet from his gun. Was the long summer search connected? Maybe for the knife. Did BGs phone ping in that area?

  104. What makes it every more astounding, this case had enormous resources at their disposal, that a normal investigation can only dream of. All these people involved, and not ONE had any sense to think they needed to take a deeper look at a guy who placed himself there, at that time and looks exactly like BG because he was. I've never in my life been so blown away by an investigation as this one, what a travesty.

  105. Do remember that this is a distilled document that pulls everything together over several years. All of the individual aspects were not sitting together at the same time on the same tip sheet. There were so many tips that it could easily have been missed at the time

  106. Where could this info have been hiding early on. Imagine all the people working this case who surely didn't run across the info. I remember hearing within the first couple of months, about all the different local, state, out of state (knew someone who said neighboring state LE relative providing assist), federal agencies providing assist.

  107. Yea. I guess maybe they have poor inter-dept and agency communication and the forestry official (or whatever he was) and LE didn’t have a good way to pass info and flag its significance. So maybe it got buried under a ton of reports from folks and tips. Then suddenly some cop decides to go through the files and sees RA’s and is like “huh? This guy was there and probably was the guy people saw and could be BG and could be the murderer. Let’s interview him and see about getting a search warrant.”

  108. Something tells me too that this issue exists all over the world and my stomach is sick thinking about all the cold cases out there that won’t ever be solved because of incompetence like this. FBI being involved and not noticing is terrible too.

  109. After I’m sure millions of dollars in taxes, more then half a decade of the families wondering what the fuck happened and getting zero answers… the PC: dude told us days after murder he was there during the time of the murders wearing exactly what BG was wearing, and all of the witnesses on the trail that day said he was wearing exactly what BG was wearing and didn’t see any other old white murdery dudes.

  110. The incompetence is insane. Through all the articles, press releases, podcasts and clips I’ve read and watched, it really seemed like they had nothing to go off.

  111. You're missing nothing. Listen to true crime enough and you'll notice how often the cops are completely incompetent. We only assume they're any good because of a kind of confidence trick they pull, like how when we're young we assume adults generally know what they're doing, and then we get to be mid 20s and realise were all just big babies.

  112. See Murder Sheets last episode. They're reporting the initial interview with RA got misfiled by the FBI and never came across the desk of the investigators.

  113. What if the judge who has now recused himself refused to sign off on the search warrant 5 years ago because of insufficient evidence? This could certainly be verified. It would explain his fear of public anger.

  114. At the very least they could have gotten a SW. The PCA for RL’s SW was pretty flimsy and they were able to get one. RA wasn’t exactly being evasive, had they asked a few more questions,or any questions at all they would have known to take a little harder look at this guy. FFS it’s a small town, they could have gotten more information about him within a search warrant. JFC.

  115. Not to mention that he has a gun capable of firing the unspent round found next to the bodies. This is in addition to placing himself at the scene and stating he was dressed exactly like the killer in the video. While perfectly matching the estimated height and weight of the killer? And, he owned car that matched the surveillance video? And, he was not at work on the date and time of the killings? And, cell tower evidence confirming his location?

  116. Before the PCA I really was hesitant in believing he was the guy. However, the bullet by the girls at the murder scene is a bit troubling. I don't know anything about ballistics. How probable is it that it is someone else's bullet there? RA also admitting he was there during the time they were murdered and admitting to wearing the blue coat makes me now believe more he did it or definitely was part of the murder. Since we don't think the girls were shot I assume it was a mistake by RA leaving a bullet there if it is in fact his.

  117. I suspect that LE has the right person. I don't know much about ballistics or markings left on casings from shell ejections other than what I've learned on Forensic Files. I want to believe that it is very unlikely that this is someone else's round though and certainly a mistake it was left behind. Also for my Forensic Files friends, is it possible to use a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer to analyze the round for characteristics that could match ammunition in RA's home? Could the round at the murder scene have unique markings from manufacturing that put it in series with the ammunition found in RA's home? I'm assuming LE found ammo. I also realize this is a huge reach but this is the kind of nuanced evidence that could put him at the scene.

  118. I'm a hugggge police supporter but they dropped the ball on this one(at least in the beginning). An arrest could of been made very quickly. RA comes forward, police do a check on him and see he has a .40 caliber gun ....that's more than enough for a search warrant. Police find the gun and do what they did in the PCA except 5 years ago and arrest him .

  119. This is shocking, sad, and unbelievable. The PC was sealed because of the impact on LE. I feel horrible for the family of Libby and Abby. LE really let them down.

  120. I wonder how many of the people saying that it should have been obvious that RA was the prime suspect were also the people saying that it simply HAD to be KK because it was too much of a coincidence otherwise? There were many of you saying that here. I'm not excusing LE, but it seems like they also made that assumption and got sidetracked.

  121. The PC said there was a man all in black seen as well. What if he was waiting “down the hill?” Make sense being it was short amount of time for a double homicide and the bodies were found in very different positions and different levels of injury. What if RA took one and KK the other?

  122. small town cops that only have a high school diploma that have never worked a murder scene. Needs to be a change in law enforcement requirements and training asap

  123. It does seem as though the dots could have been connected in the first week. Find bullet, run gun registration check for that caliber gun in the area, notice that among the locals who own a .40 caliber gun is a guy that says he was on the trail/bridge during the afternoon the two murdered girls were there. An ejection match for the bullet was not even necessary to put Richard Allen at the top of the suspect list within 3-4 days of the the murders.

  124. Yeah this is so disturbing. I was expecting something really complex from the rhetoric they were using when pleading to keep it sealed. They seem so bothered that Abby and Libby have actually touched so many people and we will fight for them. Like, yeah, there's publicity because two little innocent girls were murdered in broad daylight.

  125. Either completely bungled, or they knew immediately it was RA and a massive pedo ring was also discovered and the whole investigation has been ongoing so they sat on the arrest. Wild case. Hope they kept an eye on him all this time. Yikes

  126. The arrest could have happened in days unless they were already looking at another massive deep web CSAM ring that RA could have been a part of. In those instances, law enforcement will wait months, sometimes years, to make sure they are able to catch as many criminals as possible. RA could have photographed his crime and exchanged the images in return for images made by other sadistic perverts, and then of course LE would need to go and find the children in the other photos, lots of times they are internationally shared, so that’s a ton of work across a ton of jurisdictions and different continents, etc. That’s the only thing I could think of which would drag this out for so long.

  127. Conservation officers are real police officers with guns who can arrest people. I know in my state they’re called Game Wardens and they’re the only members of law enforcement able to search without a warrant.

  128. How much do u want to bet they were swayed by him looking at the ‘stock ticker’ “Surely it cant be him, he owns stocks!” Omg this whole thing is so upsetting.

  129. Right? Or maybe it was the other guy dressed identically to him walking the trail at that exact time? Seriously this a town with a population of what? Like 30?

  130. They didn't have the gun at that time did they? How can a bullet be cycled through the gun but not fired? Sorry if this has already been answered.

  131. My theory is he used it for control because a gunshot would draw to much attention. So he had his gun loaded and cocked with one in the chamber ready to fire. He orders them down the hill using the gun and at some point they start resisting, not wanting to shoot but wanting to threaten them into complying he cocks the gun again which can be seen as a threatening action. Since it's already loaded and cocked doing it again will eject the unfired round and load a new bullet into the chamber tossing the unfired bullet to the ground. With everything going on the thought of the first bullet may have slipped his mind and he left without retrieving it.

  132. I agree what about the witness that described him with mud and blood on him? That was the first I’ve heard of that and IMO probably would have been enough at least to detain him however many hours they can by law

  133. I wonder if there was an intentional effort on the part of one person in LE (not a conspiracy, and maybe not the conservation officer who received the tip) to bury the tip narrative. And maybe that's the other person the prosecution was referring to when attempting to keep the PC affidavit sealed.

  134. I am wondering if the second person they talk about may be someone from LE who helped RA to go unnoticed. Maybe by writing inaccurate report or some other action. It is a small community so maybe the offi ér who spoke to RA knew him and thought no way it is him so somehow swiped it under the carpet.

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