I mean, I am not the person you're asking, but its quite simple. See the reunited, happy and together. There is nothing complex about what fans WANTED to see. Hell, some of the best moments we have are simple scenes like the ones from Okinawa when they help Saejima. Just them together and enjoying each others company. They are after all, one of the core relationships that the whole franchise has been built around. And arguably the heart of the series. So it is incredibly frustrating to have them not deliver any kind of closure on that.
Just my opinion but I don't think we really needed this. I much prefer having the reunion be off screen and we fill in the rest in our heads. I feel like knowing that Kiryu wants to pursue life and he'll be able to see his kids again is perfect enough because whatever reunion they could make just wouldn't hit as hard as the sort of "everything is going to be okay" ending we got.
I don't particularly feel like arguing since it seemed like someone else has already taken up the mantle but I also respectfully disagree with having their reunion be off screen. Separate and apart from me personally wanting it, Kiryu has expressed a very clear desire to interact with Haruka and the other "kids" since the ending of Y6. That's driven home pretty hard in the ending of MWEHN, like it's literally the one thing he wants more than anything is to be able to interact with them in some way and let them know he's okay. So in my opinion it is a disservice to have the reunion be off screen since it's pretty much the sole desire of the series' longtime protagonist. Especially when the series is so good at pulling heartstrings through cutscenes that carry that kind of emotional weight. From a practical standpoint, I also think it's a further disservice to have their reunion be off-screen because Haruka and Haruto's reactions to Kiryu's cancer diagnosis would be great character moments for everyone involved, like how Kiryu chooses to break the news, how the concept of cancer is explained to Haruto, what Haruka says in response, etc. Having all of that be off-screen is both unsatisfying and also a waste of storytelling opportunity.
Fair enough on the first half, but I'm not really vibing with the second half. Yeah, it'd be nice to see interactions, but the need for a "character moment" in the finale, especially for Haruka, a character with a complete arc, and Haruto, someone who is a plot device and not a real character, it'd feel really out of place. Any development at that point would feel kind of forced and out of place during the final moments of having these characters on screen.
There was a link to the movie Fargo, in the dream episode, at Camp Utopia. You see on the wall, a portrait of Jean Lungruun ( the kidnapped wife from the movie)
Yeah, but they really should have shown more of Kiryu in the end and given more closure to his story. This was supposed to be his big sendoff for the series and they didn't even
His ending felt perfect to me. Why do you need to see him have a conversation with Haruka, really? There's zero reason to show it beyond just fan satisfaction, we know he's going to talk to her and whatever they could possibly write wouldn't be as powerful as just knowing that everything is okay again and they're finally going to speak to each other.
Alright asshole, I GUARANTEE that if they had a scene where they just looked at each other and smiled then fans like you would whine it wasn’t a real reunion. I GUARANTEE if they had a scene where they just said each other’s names fans like you would have a meltdown and shit their pants because not enough words were exchanged. You want a conversation? They showed you exactly how that reunion would go back in Yakuza 6 and it was HORRIBLE.
It is a damn shame that the most relevant thing he's been in (besides Fargo) is Taken 3. In my opinion he delivered the best performance across the entire series and he deserves all the recognition for it. But of course not any attention that would invade boundaries as he seems to be a private kind of guy.
Season 5 didn't resonate with me either. Judging by lurking this sub, I am in the minority when I say I can't stand Nadine/ Dot as a character. I've always had issues with Mary Sue/ Steven characters, who all of a sudden with zero explanation turn into John Rambo. I couldn't stand the mother in law character either.
Not a big fan of Dot like the others around here but she is certainly NOT a Mary Sue, you’d have to jump through hoops and ignore like everything she went through to call her that. She basically failed at defending her house both times, put the hospital on alert immediately, was eventually kidnapped by Roy, spent an entire episode planning an escape only to fail, had to be saved by Munch and then had to be saved by the military.
I'm still pretty early on but I noticed in Hawaii there's just a horde of enemies everywhere I go. Anyway to turn it down or any items to avoid fights?
You think Mike Milligan fizzled out of the story without resolution? Dude, the entire point is that he envisions this bright future as a king despite doing nothing and then reality comes crashing down on him as he’s awarded a shitty desk job because corporate America IS the future. It’s meant to be unsatisfying, unfulfilling, a slap in the face. Noticing that you’re picking a lot of fights in the comments calling everyone a pseudo intellectual and yet possibly the most unsubtle character resolution of season 2 completely flew over your head.
Imagine if I said Gus was bad because he never learns to be a better cop and doesn't face his fears and is really just a wimpy quitter in the end and that they only let him kill Malvo to get across the theme that good prevails in the end. I sound incredibly stupid right now don't I?
I think the writing is fine but like every episode there's always a line or two that just feels odd. It felt very forced in the first episode when Indira referenced the movie by saying "it's a beautiful day" only to cut right to saying "you know what they call a herd of lions? Pride." These two parts of the sentence just don't mesh together.
They can be fun, but who says they are meant to be fun? It's the same question for art in general. For example, they can be slow or experimental (which can be really fun or really boring to someone). Same with just action and shooting. It can be boring or fun. It's pretty subjective. I don't play games or watch movies just for fun. To me it's also a matter of having general knowledge of art.
Yes, not everything is made solely to entertain, but people can make mundane things and still leave the viewer entertained. This is like saying scary things aren't made to be entertaining, they're made to be scary, as if that means it's not entertaining when something is able to actually scare you or make you uncomfortable.
Yeah, personally I find the first four episodes of season 3 to be like just good. S1, 2 and 5 all have first episodes that can hook you for the entire season, but S3 is the kind of "just good" where you'll be interested in what happens in the next episode but you're not hooked for the entire story. It really picks up around episode 5-6 for me though, and from there on it's like a non-stop rush where no moment is wasted and the quality is on par with season 1.
I think the show is best watched in order, but there's nothing wrong with jumping to whatever season sounds the most interesting to you. Also give S2 a few more episodes, although I love it I can understand that the opening is a bit slow for some, if you aren't enjoying it by like episode 4 then there's nothing wrong with skipping it.
Yeah, it was all very stupid, kind of took me out of the season. There were much safer ways to deliver this message to Roy than going alone to his compound. Even if he had wanted to do it in-person, bring a police officer with a live-streaming body cam or whatever.
No, it wasn't a smart idea. Was it believable for someone like Danish? Yes. Clearly Lorraine and Danish work by keeping things under the rug, doing negotiations with anyone else around besides the people they're negotiating with would feel out of character. Plus don't forget that Danish knows next to nothing about Roy, there's zero reason for Danish to assume that Roy would kill him right there.
Yeah I still don't see it that way. A phone call would have been a direct dealing. Danish knew that Roy had kidnapped Dot, that's enough reason to avoid an in-person meeting at Roy's compound with a bunch of armed guards.
That's a fair point, but counterpoint: Witt, a state trooper, said he had no power in the situation and assumed Dot didn't have much time which is a pretty good motivator for Danish to rush in with a half baked plan.
I get that point for sure but you’re talking about a sheriff who lives on a remote compound that has many, many armed guards and who just punched a woman in the face for being in his way…to me that smells like crazy—common sense.
Sure, but killing him right then and there? At worst Danish would probably assume that he'd be beaten up and maybe his car would get busted up to send a message. The thing is, Danish is the personal lawyer of a CEO of a multibillion corporation, his disappearance would be some big news that nobody would want to deal with, but he doesn't realize that Roy has so little care and will take out any obstacle in his way.
It's about the realism. Men who think like Roy exist out there in numbers meanwhile the big antagonists of other seasons, like Malvo, Hanzee & Varga, they've all got an unrealistic force of nature feel to them. They get away with so much you could never get away with and have evaded authorities with unrealistic amounts of luck. Roy's evilness is far more grounded and he's caught the eye of the FBI who actually acknowledge the bad things he's done.
I'd say it's obscure enough, I didn't even know there was a show about it, I thought it was just the 2008 CG movie. Learning this has sent me down a rabbit hole.
By the ethos of Fargo, Nikki “deserved” to die. She was a well rounded character and fun to root for, loyal to Ray, etc… but she was seriously flawed and this universe punishes that.
I don't think this is the right way to approach this. Dot isn't perfect (compulsive lying & letting a man be abducted) so I'd say she's about on par with someone like Ed, and he bled out. Even if she did no wrong I still don't think she's off limits from death when characters like Vern and Dimitri exist, both 100% innocent and died anyways.
By your logic Fargo was woke garbage as early as season 2, arguably maybe even sooner, but I bet you didn’t notice that. The only thing you know how to do is call things you don’t like meaningless buzzwords. The product is woke, the person that disagrees is a sheep, everyone who I don’t like must be a lefty. I deconstructed a single post by using the facts represented to us in the show, if objective facts make you so angry then I have nothing to say to someone like you.
You're not that bright if you think throwing out "lefty anti-trump sheep guy" has substance, it's just a meaningless list of things you don't like and you're just calling me that because I disagree with you. It's also coincidentally the most common buzzwords right leaning people call others online when they get angry. All you're missing is calling me some lgbt slur and then you'd be the whole package.
more interesting characters, new ideas, better cinematography. just rewatched season 4 and loved it so much, it's beyond me why people dislike it. I get the complaint that it's a bit overcrowded but I think bingeing helps you see that they manage the big cast quite well. plus East/West is probably my favorite ep of the entire show
I mean, I am not the person you're asking, but its quite simple. See the reunited, happy and together. There is nothing complex about what fans WANTED to see. Hell, some of the best moments we have are simple scenes like the ones from Okinawa when they help Saejima. Just them together and enjoying each others company. They are after all, one of the core relationships that the whole franchise has been built around. And arguably the heart of the series. So it is incredibly frustrating to have them not deliver any kind of closure on that.
Just my opinion but I don't think we really needed this. I much prefer having the reunion be off screen and we fill in the rest in our heads. I feel like knowing that Kiryu wants to pursue life and he'll be able to see his kids again is perfect enough because whatever reunion they could make just wouldn't hit as hard as the sort of "everything is going to be okay" ending we got.
I don't particularly feel like arguing since it seemed like someone else has already taken up the mantle but I also respectfully disagree with having their reunion be off screen. Separate and apart from me personally wanting it, Kiryu has expressed a very clear desire to interact with Haruka and the other "kids" since the ending of Y6. That's driven home pretty hard in the ending of MWEHN, like it's literally the one thing he wants more than anything is to be able to interact with them in some way and let them know he's okay. So in my opinion it is a disservice to have the reunion be off screen since it's pretty much the sole desire of the series' longtime protagonist. Especially when the series is so good at pulling heartstrings through cutscenes that carry that kind of emotional weight. From a practical standpoint, I also think it's a further disservice to have their reunion be off-screen because Haruka and Haruto's reactions to Kiryu's cancer diagnosis would be great character moments for everyone involved, like how Kiryu chooses to break the news, how the concept of cancer is explained to Haruto, what Haruka says in response, etc. Having all of that be off-screen is both unsatisfying and also a waste of storytelling opportunity.
Fair enough on the first half, but I'm not really vibing with the second half. Yeah, it'd be nice to see interactions, but the need for a "character moment" in the finale, especially for Haruka, a character with a complete arc, and Haruto, someone who is a plot device and not a real character, it'd feel really out of place. Any development at that point would feel kind of forced and out of place during the final moments of having these characters on screen.
There was a link to the movie Fargo, in the dream episode, at Camp Utopia. You see on the wall, a portrait of Jean Lungruun ( the kidnapped wife from the movie)
Wait, really? Where exactly do you see it?
Yeah, but they really should have shown more of Kiryu in the end and given more closure to his story. This was supposed to be his big sendoff for the series and they didn't even
His ending felt perfect to me. Why do you need to see him have a conversation with Haruka, really? There's zero reason to show it beyond just fan satisfaction, we know he's going to talk to her and whatever they could possibly write wouldn't be as powerful as just knowing that everything is okay again and they're finally going to speak to each other.
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Alright asshole, I GUARANTEE that if they had a scene where they just looked at each other and smiled then fans like you would whine it wasn’t a real reunion. I GUARANTEE if they had a scene where they just said each other’s names fans like you would have a meltdown and shit their pants because not enough words were exchanged. You want a conversation? They showed you exactly how that reunion would go back in Yakuza 6 and it was HORRIBLE.
It is a damn shame that the most relevant thing he's been in (besides Fargo) is Taken 3. In my opinion he delivered the best performance across the entire series and he deserves all the recognition for it. But of course not any attention that would invade boundaries as he seems to be a private kind of guy.
Replying to a 1 year old thread
Season 5 didn't resonate with me either. Judging by lurking this sub, I am in the minority when I say I can't stand Nadine/ Dot as a character. I've always had issues with Mary Sue/ Steven characters, who all of a sudden with zero explanation turn into John Rambo. I couldn't stand the mother in law character either.
Not a big fan of Dot like the others around here but she is certainly NOT a Mary Sue, you’d have to jump through hoops and ignore like everything she went through to call her that. She basically failed at defending her house both times, put the hospital on alert immediately, was eventually kidnapped by Roy, spent an entire episode planning an escape only to fail, had to be saved by Munch and then had to be saved by the military.
I'm still pretty early on but I noticed in Hawaii there's just a horde of enemies everywhere I go. Anyway to turn it down or any items to avoid fights?
It shouldn't be a problem because you can just run past them. They really toned down how easily enemies spot you in IW.
I suppose subverting expectations by making it difficult to tell the white characters apart was part of the he lore. The random tornado... Come on.
Random tornado? Is this a serious complaint?
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This is possibly the most surface level ending since season 1, hop off your high horse.
You think Mike Milligan fizzled out of the story without resolution? Dude, the entire point is that he envisions this bright future as a king despite doing nothing and then reality comes crashing down on him as he’s awarded a shitty desk job because corporate America IS the future. It’s meant to be unsatisfying, unfulfilling, a slap in the face. Noticing that you’re picking a lot of fights in the comments calling everyone a pseudo intellectual and yet possibly the most unsubtle character resolution of season 2 completely flew over your head.
This is what I am saying. I get it. I understand the reason for it. I am just saying that it puts communicating a theme over a satisfying story.
Imagine if I said Gus was bad because he never learns to be a better cop and doesn't face his fears and is really just a wimpy quitter in the end and that they only let him kill Malvo to get across the theme that good prevails in the end. I sound incredibly stupid right now don't I?
I think the writing is fine but like every episode there's always a line or two that just feels odd. It felt very forced in the first episode when Indira referenced the movie by saying "it's a beautiful day" only to cut right to saying "you know what they call a herd of lions? Pride." These two parts of the sentence just don't mesh together.
I'm gonna throw in a curveball recommendation here for anyone willing to watch foreign television:
I’m really, really hoping his duplicates show up again at some point. That might have been one of the funniest moments this season.
One of the funniest moments but I don't think anything's going to beat the laughing fit my friends and I had to the 500 YEARS EARLIER
They can be fun, but who says they are meant to be fun? It's the same question for art in general. For example, they can be slow or experimental (which can be really fun or really boring to someone). Same with just action and shooting. It can be boring or fun. It's pretty subjective. I don't play games or watch movies just for fun. To me it's also a matter of having general knowledge of art.
I know plenty of people/authors who think playing games/watching movies is not exclusively "to be entertained", unless you're a teen, but ok.
Yes, not everything is made solely to entertain, but people can make mundane things and still leave the viewer entertained. This is like saying scary things aren't made to be entertaining, they're made to be scary, as if that means it's not entertaining when something is able to actually scare you or make you uncomfortable.
Yeah, personally I find the first four episodes of season 3 to be like just good. S1, 2 and 5 all have first episodes that can hook you for the entire season, but S3 is the kind of "just good" where you'll be interested in what happens in the next episode but you're not hooked for the entire story. It really picks up around episode 5-6 for me though, and from there on it's like a non-stop rush where no moment is wasted and the quality is on par with season 1.
I think the show is best watched in order, but there's nothing wrong with jumping to whatever season sounds the most interesting to you. Also give S2 a few more episodes, although I love it I can understand that the opening is a bit slow for some, if you aren't enjoying it by like episode 4 then there's nothing wrong with skipping it.
If you need to watch the last episode of the season to get hooked that's bad.
Yeah, it was all very stupid, kind of took me out of the season. There were much safer ways to deliver this message to Roy than going alone to his compound. Even if he had wanted to do it in-person, bring a police officer with a live-streaming body cam or whatever.
No, it wasn't a smart idea. Was it believable for someone like Danish? Yes. Clearly Lorraine and Danish work by keeping things under the rug, doing negotiations with anyone else around besides the people they're negotiating with would feel out of character. Plus don't forget that Danish knows next to nothing about Roy, there's zero reason for Danish to assume that Roy would kill him right there.
Yeah I still don't see it that way. A phone call would have been a direct dealing. Danish knew that Roy had kidnapped Dot, that's enough reason to avoid an in-person meeting at Roy's compound with a bunch of armed guards.
That's a fair point, but counterpoint: Witt, a state trooper, said he had no power in the situation and assumed Dot didn't have much time which is a pretty good motivator for Danish to rush in with a half baked plan.
I get that point for sure but you’re talking about a sheriff who lives on a remote compound that has many, many armed guards and who just punched a woman in the face for being in his way…to me that smells like crazy—common sense.
Sure, but killing him right then and there? At worst Danish would probably assume that he'd be beaten up and maybe his car would get busted up to send a message. The thing is, Danish is the personal lawyer of a CEO of a multibillion corporation, his disappearance would be some big news that nobody would want to deal with, but he doesn't realize that Roy has so little care and will take out any obstacle in his way.
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It's about the realism. Men who think like Roy exist out there in numbers meanwhile the big antagonists of other seasons, like Malvo, Hanzee & Varga, they've all got an unrealistic force of nature feel to them. They get away with so much you could never get away with and have evaded authorities with unrealistic amounts of luck. Roy's evilness is far more grounded and he's caught the eye of the FBI who actually acknowledge the bad things he's done.
What do you mean "obscure"? This Show was pretty popular where i come from.
I'd say it's obscure enough, I didn't even know there was a show about it, I thought it was just the 2008 CG movie. Learning this has sent me down a rabbit hole.
By the ethos of Fargo, Nikki “deserved” to die. She was a well rounded character and fun to root for, loyal to Ray, etc… but she was seriously flawed and this universe punishes that.
I don't think this is the right way to approach this. Dot isn't perfect (compulsive lying & letting a man be abducted) so I'd say she's about on par with someone like Ed, and he bled out. Even if she did no wrong I still don't think she's off limits from death when characters like Vern and Dimitri exist, both 100% innocent and died anyways.
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By your logic Fargo was woke garbage as early as season 2, arguably maybe even sooner, but I bet you didn’t notice that. The only thing you know how to do is call things you don’t like meaningless buzzwords. The product is woke, the person that disagrees is a sheep, everyone who I don’t like must be a lefty. I deconstructed a single post by using the facts represented to us in the show, if objective facts make you so angry then I have nothing to say to someone like you.
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You're not that bright if you think throwing out "lefty anti-trump sheep guy" has substance, it's just a meaningless list of things you don't like and you're just calling me that because I disagree with you. It's also coincidentally the most common buzzwords right leaning people call others online when they get angry. All you're missing is calling me some lgbt slur and then you'd be the whole package.
people are absolutely insane, how is season 5 better than season 4? seriously
What do you find better about season 4?
more interesting characters, new ideas, better cinematography. just rewatched season 4 and loved it so much, it's beyond me why people dislike it. I get the complaint that it's a bit overcrowded but I think bingeing helps you see that they manage the big cast quite well. plus East/West is probably my favorite ep of the entire show
Personally I found the characters in S4 to be the most surface level in the series with just a few exceptions who were very interesting.